[discuss] [bestbits] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google

Sat May 3 09:47:40 UTC 2014

+1 Nick

Michael, the paper you sent (BTW, really bad form to copy the whole thing
rather than providing a link, for far more reasons than mobile devices)
strikes me as a backgrounder. Its relevance *here* strikes me as peripheral
unless you wish to argue that Google is not a legitimate stakeholder.

If not that, then what is the action point you wish to raise *here* as
result of the piece. "Fear Google" is in itself insufficient IMO, but I
genuinely want to know how you would have this group react.

Netmundial, arguably a significant 1Net milestone, demonstrated that it is
possible to include very large, very invasive and very fear-worthy actors
in the process. Furthermore, in a rough consensus model, no one player has
a veto.

Are you suggesting that Google requires different treatment?
 On May 3, 2014 5:00 AM, "michael gurstein" <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:

> Nick,
>
> I would have thought putting these discussions into an appropriate, current
> and larger context would be a quite reasonable addition--although clearly
> uncomfortable for some.
>
> But yes, apologies to those following on mobiles.
>
> M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Ashton-Hart [mailto:nashton at internet-ecosystem.org]
> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 9:37 AM
> To: michael gurstein
> Cc: discuss at 1net.org List
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google
>
> - all the double posting.
>
> Michael, I'm a European, and in addition I actually live in Europe. What's
> roiling Europe right now is the Ukraine crisis - not this stuff.
>
> Could I ask - once again - that we try to keep /1net discussions focussed
> how to collaborate on issues where there's a possibility of (1) all
> communities actually seeing there is an issue, and (2) through dialogue
> agreeing on some common points about that issue?
>
> I think I'm on very safe ground in saying that this entire meme does not
> meet either of those conditions.
>
> Could I also ask that entire long articles from publications not be copied
> wholesale into list correspondence? While I am not, some people are paying
> for mobile access to this list, and this simply increases their costs and
> downloading time for communications. A link should suffice.
>
> On 3 May 2014, at 09:55, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This discussion is currently roiling Europe and beyond.
> >
> > The discussion and Zuboff's analysis has very significant implications
> for
> the matters of Multistakeholder governance which are currently being
> triumphantly trumpeted in these contexts and beyond. The issues that Zuboff
> is pointing to with specific reference to Google and surveillance underlie
> the drive to include companies like Google and others directly in decision
> making through multistakeholder processes/Internet Governance.
> >
> > It hardly takes a huge flight of imagination to recognize the signals
> concerning the extreme danger that MSism represents in the context of
> Zuboff's arguments i.e. giving Google (et al) effective veto power over and
> a highly influential (and potentially unstoppable role in) decision making
> in areas key to controlling what Zuboff calls "the rise of absolute power".
> >
> > (And for the Multistakeholderists among us here is a critical response
> > from a former senior employee of another Silicon Valley corporate
> > giant--Yahoo
> > https://www.facebook.com/benjaminbratton/posts/10152082644097966?strea
> > m_ref=10 )
> >
> > M
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: liberationtech
> > [mailto:liberationtech-bounces at lists.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Yosem
> > Companys
> > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:41 PM
> > To: Liberation Technologies
> > Subject: [liberationtech] Shoshanna Zuboff: Dark Google
> >
>
> <Snip> the rest of a gigantically long reproduction of an article.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Nick Ashton-Hart
> Executive Director, Internet & Digital Ecosystem Alliance (IDEA)
> Tel: +41 (22) 534 99 45
> Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44
> Mobile: +41 79 595 5468
> USA Tel: +1 (202) 640-5430
> email/IM (Jabber/GTalk): nashton at internet-ecosystem.org PGP Fingerprint:
> BFD5  DF7 7 2E D5 8 636  92E7  735 7 07 03 7 727  9B0A  522 6
> Skype: nashtonhart
> www.internet-ecosystem.org
>
>
>
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