<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 02 April 2014 08:39 PM,
Alejandro Pisanty wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOxRbV-LMNwXDo5u3yxmgKR7Vn6GWrKGV+f44uC=+eabWg-kzg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks a lot. How should 1Net/NetMundial proceed - again
following George's suggestion to see what collective thinking
can be developed - with respect to any issue far removed from
ICANN?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Alejandro<br>
<br>
Thanks for taking forward the dialogue on non ICANN related, larger,
global public policy issues which are even more important than
devising a mechanism of oversight for ICANN.<br>
<br>
In this regard, first we need to understand how any kind of public
policy priorities are currently applied over the Internet. I see two
key ways in which this happens;<br>
<br>
1. The Internet still being largely US produced/based, US's public
policy priorities get hard-wired into the Internet, whereby they get
applied over the whole world. It comes from the hearings of the FTC
, FCC pronouncement, from constitutional provisions, patents courts
judgement, and many such other means. <br>
<br>
2. Rich country clubs like the OECD and Council of Europe (CoE) make
various policy frameworks, policy principles and actual treaties.
These get applied to the Internet by various means; the collective
economic might and presence of entities from these countries on the
Internet, bi-lateral negotiations whereby these frameworks are kind
of forced upon less powerful nations, and so on...<br>
<br>
This situations creates two kinds of problems. <br>
<br>
One, since the diverse interests of all countries are not taken into
account in making what amounts to global public policies pertaining
to the Internet, there are not adequate policies in many areas. This
is truer of issues like social justice, economic justice, cultural
justice, and the such, which concern the less powerful more than the
richer countries. <br>
<br>
Second, even when policies and policy frameworks do exist, these
cannot be considered legitimate on the 'no legislation without
representation' ground, which I think we would all agree to. <br>
<br>
This is the statement of the problem. We may first need to agree on
the problem statement.<br>
<br>
But assuming that we do, my prescription of the solution is as
follows. <br>
<br>
We develop a mechanism of developing global public policies
pertaining to the Internet which include all countries, on similar
lines as rich countries do this among themselves. This is done by
OECD and CoE through dedicated Internet policy related mechanisms,
which are respectively the Committee on Computers, Information and
Communication Policies, and Committee on Media and Information
Society. These committees are addressing most areas of Internet
related public policies, a long list of which was given in my
earlier email, below. There should a similar committee, with similar
mandate and tasks, but involving all countries (even if by
rotational membership to take account of the large number).<br>
<br>
We should take the best possible practices of stakeholder
participation, and all other positive features, from OECD's and
CoE's mechanisms, to develop such a genuinely global mechanism for
global Internet related public policies. We should also innovate
beyond current practices of these bodies, for instance, put this new
mechanism in close connection with the IGF (neither OECD or CoE's
mechanisms having anything like it), which is an exponential
improvement over OECD/ CoE's mechanisms.<br>
<br>
Look forward to hear views on this, so that, as Alejandro advices,
we may possibly develop a collective view on this most important
matter for the NetMundial meeting, and beyond.<br>
<br>
Thanks. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOxRbV-LMNwXDo5u3yxmgKR7Vn6GWrKGV+f44uC=+eabWg-kzg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:00 AM,
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<div>On Wednesday 19 March 2014 06:25 AM, Alejandro
Pisanty wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>the logical next step is to ask you to resend
your message complete with what seems to be an
involuntarily ommitted part, the list of issues you
consider should be dealt with.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Alejandro<br>
<br>
Sorry, I had missed this email of a few weeks back... My
organisation did submit a list of global Internet related
public policy issues that need resolution in response to
the questionnaire of Working Group on Enhanced
Cooperation. Our full response is <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.itforchange.net/Response_to_the_questionnaire_issued_by_CSTD_Working_Group_on_Enhanced_Cooperation_html"
target="_blank">here </a><br>
<br>
The response to question 4 which is the one relevant to
your email is cut pasted below.......<br>
<br>
(begins)<br>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"><b>4. What
are the relevant international public policy issues
pertaining to the Internet? </b></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"> </p>
<p style="font-weight:normal" align="JUSTIFY">The report
of the Working Group on Internet Governance<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.itforchange.net/Response_to_the_questionnaire_issued_by_CSTD_Working_Group_on_Enhanced_Cooperation_html#sdfootnote1sym"
name="14522f4d4b1ed4a2_sdfootnote1anc" target="_blank"><sup>1</sup></a>
(WGIG), set up during the WSIS process, identified many
international public policy issues pertaining to the
Internet. This output of the Working Group was
recognized by the Tunis Agenda, which reasserts most of
these issues. Some more issues were identified in the
background report<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.itforchange.net/Response_to_the_questionnaire_issued_by_CSTD_Working_Group_on_Enhanced_Cooperation_html#sdfootnote2sym"
name="14522f4d4b1ed4a2_sdfootnote2anc" target="_blank"><sup>2</sup></a>
to the WGIG report. More recently, the ITU Council
Resolution 1305 (2009), in its Annex 1, recognized some
public policy issues pertaining to the Internet,
especially those with rather significant technical
aspects.</p>
<p style="font-weight:normal" align="JUSTIFY">It is
difficult to have a closed list of international public
policy issues pertaining to the Internet, since new ones
keep cropping up, with amazing rapidity. An indicative,
non-exhaustive, list of public policy issues pertaining
to the Internet is given below. It is difficult at this
stage to do such a listing in any strict order of
priority. We start with issues listed in the WGIG report
and its background report, move to the listing made by
the ITU, and then add some more emergent issues.</p>
<p style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY">Issues listed in the WGIG report (see
the report for elaboration of each issue)</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Administration
of the root zone files and system</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Interconnection
costs (especially global interconnection)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Internet
stability, security and cybercrime</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Spam</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Allocation
of domain names</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">IP
addressing</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Intellectual
property rights (IPR)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Freedom
of Expression</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Data
protection and privacy rights</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Consumer
rights</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Multilingualism</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Convergence
and next generation networks</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">trade and
e-commerce</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p
style="margin-left:0.02cm;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY"><br>
Some additional public policy issues mentioned in the
background report to the WGIG report (elaborated in the
report)<br>
<br>
</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Applicable
jurisdiction, cross border coordination</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Internet
service providers (ISPs) and third party liabilities</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">National
policies and regulations (harmonization of)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Competition
policy, liberalization, privatization and
regulations</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Affordable
and universal access</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Cultural
diversity</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY">technical standards, and technology
choices</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY"> </p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"><span
style="font-weight:normal">Public policy issues
recognized in the ITU Resolution 1305, with regard to
“</span><span lang="en-US"><span
style="font-weight:normal">scope of work of ITU on
international Internet-related public policy
matters”</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY"> </p>
<ul>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Multilingualization
of the Internet including Internationalized
(multilingual) Domain Names</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">International
Internet Connectivity</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">International
public policy issues pertaining to the Internet and
the management of Internet resources, including
domain names and addresses</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">The
security, safety, continuity, sustainability, and
robustness of the Internet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Combating
cybercrime</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Dealing
effectively with spam</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Issues
pertaining to the use and misuse of the Internet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Availability,
affordability, reliability, and quality of service,
especially in the developing world</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Contributing
to capacity building for Internet governance in
developing countries</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Developmental
aspects of the Internet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Respect
for privacy and the protection of personal
information and data</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY">Protecting children and young people
from abuse and exploitation</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p
style="margin-left:0.08cm;text-indent:0.04cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.08cm;text-indent:0.04cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY">There are many more, existing as well as
emergent ,public policy issues pertaining to the
Internet, like;<br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-left:0.08cm;text-indent:0.04cm;font-weight:normal"
align="JUSTIFY"><br>
</p>
<ul>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Cloud
computing (global issues involved)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Cross
border Internet flows</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Tax
allocation among different jurisdictions with regard
to global e-commerce</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Economics
of personal data (who owns, who makes money from,
and so on)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Net
neutrality (that all data is given equal priority on
networks)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Search
neutrality (that global search engines give neutral
results)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Media
convergence - Internet and traditional media
(Internet companies versus newspapers, radio, cable
and TV, book publishing industry etc)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Regulation
of global Internet businesses (in terms of adherence
to competition policies, consumer rights, law
enforcement etc)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Internet
intermediary companies as private agents for
extra-territorial law enforcement (problems with)</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Access to
knowledge and free information flows, deepening the
public domain on the Internet</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Accessibility
policies for the disabled</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Development
of, and protection to, local content, local
application, local e-services, and local/ domestic
Internet businesses</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Protection
of vulnerable sections, like children, women,
traditional communities etc</p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"><span
style="font-weight:normal">Internet and health
systems, education systems, governance systems and
so on</span><b>.</b></p>
</li>
<li>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"><span
style="font-weight:normal">Many many more... this
being an unending and ever-evolving list, such is
the transformational influence of the Internet on
our social systems</span><b>.</b></p>
</li>
</ul>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY"> <br>
(ends)<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">Thanks<br>
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm" align="JUSTIFY">parminder <br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 4:58
AM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font
face="Verdana">Agree with George,<br>
<br>
There is a serious need for this thought
experiment. <br>
<br>
Lets devote at least half of our consciousness
to this thought experiment - take it that
ICANN side problems are all solved.<br>
<br>
What other things, perhaps more important than
'ICANN issues' is NetMundial supposed to
address. <br>
<br>
I do not agree with George or Nick that non
'ICANN side issues' are not Internet
governance issues. But lets discuss different
positions on these issues in any case..<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
</font>
<div>On Monday 17 March 2014 10:42 PM, George
Sadowsky wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> All,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like to focus on a broader issue
raised by the interesting discussion below.
It has been touched on before, but I think
it’s useful to go somewhat further.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I see the issue as what is the
appropriate domain of 'Internet governance'
concerns. And that leads immediately to
what we think the domain of concern of
“Internet governance’ is, i.e. how we define
it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>I’d like to propose a thought
experiment.</b> Suppose that by 30
September 2015, somehow “we” have created an
appropriate accountability mechanism to
replace NTIA’s current responsibilities.
Further, suppose that (1) NTIA accepted it
and proceeded to make the transfer to the
new mechanism, and (2) there was very broad
general agreement across multiple
stakeholder groups globally that this was a
transition that was worth supporting.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>What, then, would we discuss next?</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>On the one hand</b>, some of us argue
that Internet governance is really the
appropriate construction of Internet
administration and coordination mechanisms,
with their appropriate oversight, and that
issues of content and behavior need to be
discussed in more general contexts. Nick
Ashton-Hart argues this persuasively. As an
example, I would find it unproductive to
discuss surveillance in the Internet unless
it were within a more general context of
surveillance policy. In that context, I see
the Internet as another tool, such as using
hidden cameras and microphones, tapping
voice phone lines and intercepting postal
mail. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>On the other hand</b>, it’s clear that
the introduction of the Internet has
introduced both qualitative and quantitative
changes in many areas of life and of human
behavior, and that mechanisms dealing with
them have not caught up to dealing with the
Internet’s disruptive influence. Such
problems often have (at least) two aspects,
one technical and the other societal. I
would not characterize these as Internet
governance problems, but rather problems
with respect to general governance caused or
exacerbated by the Introduction of the
Internet.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So back to the thought experiment. If we
really do solve the accountability and
administrative issues related to ICANN and
IANA in a manner that is widely accepted
(admittedly a stretch, but it works for a
thought experiment), then that is off the
agenda. What’s next on the “Internet
governance” agenda, and why? Do the venues
for those discussions change, or not? Does
the label by which we refer o those
discussions change, or not? What is your
“to do” list for Internet governance after
an IANA final solution: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. ….</div>
<div>2. ….</div>
<div>3. ….</div>
<div>4. ….</div>
<div>….</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Opinions welcome.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finally, if you believe that there is
nothing left after an IANA final solution,
then it might be useful to suggest some of
the specify issues that you exclude, and
suggest suggest specific venues and
processes that that represent the correct
way forward to address those problems.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is really the issue of what Internet
governance is, and is not. The WGIG
definition had enough creative generality to
navigate a process through the political
environment of WSIS, but now we are
addressing more specific issues. We lack
descriptive terms that have enough
specificity for us to be able to even
discuss them without stumbling over
definitional differences. That kind of
stumbling is not a good use of resources.
If we do not share what a word or a phrase
means, I don’t see how we can discuss it
sensibly. Responses to the proposed thought
experiment might yield some clarity on this
point.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My sense is that the terms ‘Internet
coordination’ and ‘Internet administration’
are unused terms that could be used to
clarify discussions, but for some reason
they have not been adopted by many others.
Using more precise and shared terms to
discuss the issues within the different
strata of Vint’s diagram, sent in an earlier
e-mail, would IMO be very helpful in making
progress in these discussions. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let’s concentrate on recognizing,
defining and identifying problems — it’s
more important and, at least for me, more
satisfying than semantic arguments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>George</div>
<div> </div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Mar 17, 2014, at 5:22 AM, Nick
Ashton-Hart <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org"
target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear
Seun, inline responses<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 17 Mar 2014, at 10:11, Seun
Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hello Nick,<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:43
AM, Nick Ashton-Hart <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">I
disagree.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The international
community does need a
way to discuss
surveillance - but
Internet governance is
not that venue, for
the simple reason that
the surveillance issue
is about surveillance
and not the Internet. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The issue of mass
surveillance is really
asking the question of
how do countries treat
non-nationals in their
national security
activities. The fact
that the Internet is
used as a tool for
surveillance is really
irrelevant to the
question, just as the
Internet is used for
distribution of
illegal material like
those related to child
exploitation but that
is primarily an
enforcement of laws
issue, not an Internet
issue.</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>IG does not need
to be about
everything where
there is an Internet
dimension - or no
solution to any
problem can be
found.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However: the
political demands
for action over
surveillance are
impacting the
Internet as we all
know - so we do have
a vested interest in
ensuring that the
core issue of mass
surveillance is
addressed, just not
primarily by us, and
not in IG.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just to get the flow
right, when you say "us"
whom do you refer? and
when you say mass
surveillance is not an
IG issue then what issue
is it? My expectation is
that the IG platform
will provide an avenue
to discuss the issue and
then propose solutions
which countries will
then turn to legal
content applicable to
them. If the issues are
not discussed then it
will be difficult to
know what they are and
address them. Bringing
then to IG fora will
help give it a voice
that could hopefully get
to the listening hears
of government and
relevant authorities. <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"Us" meaning the IG community.
As to what issue it is, it is, as
I described, an issue of
surveillance, not the Internet.
So, the human rights dimensions
are currently being actively
addressed in the Human Rights
Council and related processes. The
exchange of data for criminal and
national security purposes are
governed by MLATs (Mutual Legal
Assistance Treaties) - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://access.org/"
target="_blank">Access.org</a>
has an excellent website devoted
to MLAT reform at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mlat.info/"
target="_blank">www.mlat.info</a>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Bringing this issue to IG fora
will harmfully conflate issues
which have nothing to do with IG
with IG issues, and contaminate
(further) Internet governance with
a great deal of politicisation. I
would hope that we all don't want
to see the security, stability,
and universality of the Internet
further polluted with politics of
national security and safety.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">As
per the NetMundial, i agree
with Avri that from recent
happenings, ICANN-IANA
related issues may carry the
majority of the agenda which
ofcourse was not the only
reason why the event was
conjured in the first place.
However since the ICANN-IANA
discussion will start from
ICANN49 i think some
foundational progress will
have been made to further
lighten up the NetMundial
agenda to accommodate the
other half of the goal which
is largely related to mass
surveillance.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think if NetMundial is
consumed with ICANN issues that
will be both a mistake and a huge
missed opportunities. Finding a
way to agree on principles, and
what is, and is not, appropriate
for IG policy to address would be
a significant added value; there
is also no other global forum
designed to produce outcomes along
these lines. The discussion of
internationalizing ICANN has a
home for discussions: ICANN.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">I
don't think anyone here is
disagreeing with recent
development on ICANN-IANA,
as it is good news. However
we should also not let that
overwhelm the other present
concerns. Lets remember that
the ICANN-IANA processes is
to prevent the future
"what-IFs" while mass
surveillance on the other
hand is currently happening
and we should not neglect
that.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"we" cannot solve national
security issues. All we can do is
insist that the various aspects of
national security use of data and
the rules by which non-nationals
are treated are dealt with - in
the fora where they are already
under discussion.</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> <br>
</div>
<div>Regards<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers!<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>
<div>On 17 Mar
2014, at 06:16,
parminder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div
style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br>
On Sunday 16
March 2014
09:51 PM,
Victor
Ndonnang
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">+1
Adiel.<br>
Surveillance
and
intelligence
agencies was
there before
the Internet.
Even<br>
if the
Internet has a
role in the
mass
surveillance...USG/NTIA
intent to<br>
transfer IANA
and root zone
management
related to the
global
independent<br>
Multistakeholder
entity is not
a response to
the mass
surveillance
issue.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Agree,
developments
on the ICANN
oversight
issue do not
constitute any
real response
to mass
surveillance
problem. And
since
NetMundial
came out of a
series of
events
directly
connected to
the mass
surveillance
problem, and
which is the
main reason
the 'global
community'
invested into
it, it is only
fair to the
people across
the world that
we have<br>
<br>
1. discussions
on this
issues, and
others related
to larger
international
public policy
issues
pertaining to
the Internet ,
and<br>
2. come up
with proposals
regarding
these issues.<br>
<br>
I have seen
almost nil
work on this
list in this
regard. ICANN
oversight
issue should
not be allowed
to overshadow
these much
more important
and pressing
global public
policy issues.
I fear this is
what is
happening. A
good reason of
course is
structural
about what
1Net is.<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">May
be that Global
Multistakeholder
entity will be
the IETF or
I... to help<br>
strengthen
security,
privacy and
trust on the
Internet.<br>
The Internet
Governance is
mainly a
technical
thing, let's
leave the<br>
technical
community
takes care of
it with the
full
participation
and inputs<br>
of others
stakeholders.<br>
Regards,<br>
Victor.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Message
d'origine-----<br>
De : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>
[<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>]
De la part<br>
de Adiel
Akplogan<br>
Envoyé :
Sunday, March
16, 2014 8:48
AM<br>
À : Seun
Ojedeji<br>
Cc : 1 Net
List; Civil
Society
Internet
Governance
Caucus - IGC<br>
Objet : Re:
[discuss]
[governance]
NTIA statement<br>
<br>
I disagree as
well. In this
discussion it
is very
important to
dissociate<br>
the USG/NTIA
by role in the
performance of
IANA function
by ICANN and
the<br>
issue related
to mass
surveillance.
The two are
not
technically
linked and<br>
should be
addressed
separately.<br>
<br>
- a.<br>
<br>
On Mar 16,
2014, at 11:03
AM, Seun
Ojedeji <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">Well
I would not
disagree that
mass
surveillance
indeed
continues.<br>
<br>
Any NSA
statement that
says
otherwise?<br>
<br>
Cheers!<br>
sent from
Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse
brevity and
typos.<br>
<br>
On 15 Mar 2014
19:08, "Joly
MacFie" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joly@punkcast.com" target="_blank">joly@punkcast.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
Disagree,<br>
<br>
Different
department.<br>
<br>
j<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Mar
15, 2014 at
7:06 AM, Louis
Pouzin (well)
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pouzin@well.com" target="_blank">pouzin@well.com</a>><br>
</blockquote>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">Hi,<br>
<br>
The IANA
ballyhoo comes
from the same
factory as the
"internet
freedom"<br>
</blockquote>
smoke screen
launched
before WCIT.
It's a spin
diversion for
the show.<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">Mass
surveillance
continues.
What's new ?<br>
<br>
Louis<br>
<br>
<br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
You received
this message
as a
subscriber on
the list:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
To be removed
from the list,
visit:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other
list
information
and functions,
see:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your
profile and to
find the IGC's
charter, see:<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this
email: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Joly MacFie
218 565 9365
<a
moz-do-not-send="true">Skype:punkcast</a>
WWWhatsup NYC
-<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wwwhatsup.com/" target="_blank">http://wwwhatsup.com</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://pinstand.com/" target="_blank">http://pinstand.com</a>
- <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://punkcast.com/" target="_blank">http://punkcast.com</a> VP<br>
(Admin) -
ISOC-NY - <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://isoc-ny.org/" target="_blank">http://isoc-ny.org</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss
mailing list<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<font color="#888888">
<blockquote
style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun
Ojedeji,<br
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal
University Oye-Ekiti<br
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">
</span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web:
</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br>
</i><i><span
style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt
email:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank"> </a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
</blockquote>
</font><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org"
target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty"
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614"
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.isoc.org"
target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614"
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>