[discuss] Fwd: [I-coordination] The self correcting nature of the American system? Judge rules against NSA tapping program. Snowden vindicated?

manning bill bmanning at isi.edu
Fri Dec 20 17:24:54 UTC 2013 

For closure….


/bill
Neca eos omnes.  Deus suos agnoscet.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: manning bill <bmanning at isi.edu>
> Subject: Re: [I-coordination] The self correcting nature of the American system? Judge rules against NSA tapping program. Snowden vindicated?
> Date: December 20, 2013 at 8:57:17 PST
> To: Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com>
> Cc: i-coordination at nro.net
> 
> as stated earlier,  the physical location of the server hardware and its connection to the “Internet” - there are more than 180 sovereign jurisdictions where the servers are located -today-.
> for the organizations that manage the servers, they reside and are subject to Swedish, Dutch, US, and Japanese jurisdictions.
> 
> Your comment regarding “A-root” is confusing.   Why do you think “A-root” is special?  
> 
> Regarding other governments being "ready to accept this situation, when  management of A root server  is under US jurisdiction.”
> seems a bit odd.   For the most part, reasonable people agree that the value of the Internet is in its interconnections, not management and control of “my” piece…
> So there is a real economic value in having a common, interconnected namespace.  And todate, the existing structures have proven extremely robust and resilient.
> 
> The only complaints seem to arise from a misunderstanding of how the DNS works and why stove-pipes/isolation are fatal to a thriving Internet.
> 
> /bill
> Neca eos omnes.  Deus suos agnoscet.
> 
> On 18December2013Wednesday, at 12:46, Grigori Saghyan <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>> Bill,
>> there are two different points:
>> 
>> 1. Jurisdiction of the territory, where   A-root server is located.
>> 2. Management of the A root server.
>> 
>> Management is OK,  till today there was no any problem with that, it
>> is under control of US based organization.
>> 
>> Territory -  till today there was no any problem with that also, A
>> root is in the US and also under US jurisdiction.
>> 
>> I do not think, that Chinese or Russian governments  are ready to
>> accept this situation, when  management of A root server  is under US
>> jurisdiction.
>> - From my point of view, there is no any country, except US,  or any
>> intl. organization, which is able to provide such  high quality
>> management of this critical infrastructure.
>> But this question will be discussed, and it is necessary to be ready
>> for such discussion.
>> Grigori Saghyan
>> ISOC.AM
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 18.12.2013 23:40, manning bill wrote:
>>> root servers are in nearly 180 sovereign locations. root server
>>> operators are subject to Swedish, Dutch, US, and Japanese
>>> jurisdiction.
>>> 
>>> /bill Neca eos omnes.  Deus suos agnoscet.
>>> 
>>> On 17December2013Tuesday, at 11:01, Grigori Saghyan
>>> <gregor at arminco.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I can modify the question - in which jurisdiction there are root
>>> servers?
>>> 
>>> Grigori Saghyan
>>> 
>>> On 17.12.2013 17:58, Ali Hussein wrote:
>>>>>> Guys
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In which jurisdiction is ICANN domiciled?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Who purports to license ICANN?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction.
>>>>>> The world will have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert
>>>>>> Einstein
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 4:49 PM, McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:mctimconsulting at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ali,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It's actually now the GAC IMHO that has the most influence
>>>>>>> in ICANN.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ask the folks whose new gTLD applications the GAC have
>>>>>>> objected to if it is the GAC or NTIA who has more
>>>>>>> influence.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> McTim
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:35 AM, Bob Bruen
>>>>>>> <korg at coldrain.net <mailto:korg at coldrain.net>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Ali,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The Registrars have the most control of ICANN. It's not
>>>>>>>> so much governments, as it is business.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --bob
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Ali Hussein wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ICANN plays a major role in this. Who really controls
>>>>>>>>> ICANN?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "I fear the day technology will surpass human
>>>>>>>>> interaction. The world will have a generation of
>>>>>>>>> idiots". ~ Albert Einstein
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Andrew Sullivan 
>>>>>>>>> <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 07:35:18AM +0300, Ali Hussein
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> By system being broken I mean the Governance
>>>>>>>>> Structures. It is a no
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> brainer that the current Internet Governance
>>>>>>>>> structures where one
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> nation has an oversized influence is no longer
>>>>>>>>> tenable.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> What is this oversized influence and what is the
>>>>>>>>> governance that you think is needed?  I don't actually
>>>>>>>>> agree that what you say is a "no brainer".
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -- Andrew Sullivan ajs at anvilwalrusden.com 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>>> I-coordination mailing list I-coordination at nro.net 
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:I-coordination at nro.net> 
>>>>>>>>> https://nro.net/mailman/listinfo/i-coordination
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -- Dr. Robert Bruen KnujOn Org http://www.knujon.org 
>>>>>>>> +1.802.579.6288
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> I-coordination mailing list I-coordination at nro.net 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> I-coordination mailing list I-coordination at nro.net 
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>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> - -- 
>> Grigori Saghyan
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