[discuss] we need to fix what may be broken
Andrew Sullivan
ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
Wed Apr 16 23:43:26 UTC 2014
Apologies for the top post, but this will be illegible if I try to interleave from my phone.
I would like to know why "governance" in particular is the answer to even one of these problems.
The OpenSSL case is a good example. People have freeloaded on that project for years, offering it precious little support while leaving security auditing and cryptanalysis for "someone else". If you think that trash in your neighborhood park is a problem, the answer is not to form a committee. The answer is to make like Pete Seeger and pick up some trash.
Yahoo's DMARC decision is another good example. That is a service supported mostly by advertising. Don't like what they're doing? Organize a boycott. That'll change things. Ask Mozilla.
IPv6 is indeed a problem, and I will not defend the series of decisions that got us here (though it's trickier than many seem to imagine). But actually, in my experience, v6 just works now. I use it all the time. It's not a "governance" problem, but an economics problem.
And it seems to me that there we arrive at the issue: this is about who's going to pay. That's very well, but I don't see why it's "Internet governance".
Best regards,
A
--
Andrew Sullivan
Please excuse my clumbsy thums.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
To: "discuss at 1net.org" <discuss at 1net.org>
Sent: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:02
Subject: Re: [discuss] we need to fix what may be broken
Grande George,
Actually I have enumerated a partial list of symptoms (all of which
happened or came to our knowledge in less than a year) of a broader
problem which, yes, is a problem of Internet governance.
Thinking of your girlfriend paradigm, I can think of a doctor detecting
several apparently unrelated symptoms (all serious) to arrive at a
diagnostic. We cannot just insist they are unrelated, or that each one
already has someone accountable for it and will take or is taking care
of it, like "don't worry, be happy, take this pill for your fever" etc.
I read one interesting response writing that the SSL case is a problem
of the open source community which developed it. So is TPC/IP, the IPv6
protocols and so on -- when a system is widely adopted like these open
source systems are, it becomes a concern for the governance of the net.
When one of these breaks spetacularly and causes a major disaster (we
are still reeling from the consequences of the SSL snafu), it becomes a
major challenge for IG.
How to, is the big question. Diagnostics might be plenty, but we may
need a strategy to deal with the problems they identify in a coordinated
fashion. Maybe the roadmap being discussed in São Paulo will help us
find the proper directions.
Thank you for your good comments.
fraternal regards
--c.a.
On 04/15/2014 07:42 PM, George Sadowsky wrote:
> Carlos,
>
> To be fair, you have enumerated a lot of issues, of which I would agree
> that the majority are real problems. But some are not problems that
> specifically relate to Internet governance unless you dramatically
> expand the meaning of the term; they are the result of the availability
> of the Internet and the inevitable migration of ALL forms of human
> behavior to the the net.
>
> But most of the problems that you mention are not at issue in terms of
> the NTIA-IANA transition. Now your intervention is perfectly OK if
> you believe that Net Mundial should cover so many problems at so many
> levels. If you do so, however, the current plans for the Net Mundial
> structure are hopelessly inadequate, and we will need a meeting of at
> least 3-4 weeks, appropriately segmented, to deal with the issues you raise.
>
> I would like again to argue strongly for well defined problem
> statements, so that we have the possibility of addressing each
> separately and definitively. Until we do this, the mix of generalities,
> allegations, and misinformation will prevail.
>
> There’s an old joke that I think applies here.
>
> You take your girlfriend and some friends to a night club. She has too
> much to drink, takes off some of her clothes, gets up on top of the
> table and starts dancing.
>
> If you are embarrassed, that is _your_ problem.
>
> If your friends become embarrassed, that is _their_ problem.
>
> If your girlfriend gets arrested by the police, that is _her_ problem.
>
> When defining problems, it is really quite important to determine whose
> problem it really is. I suggest that this method be applied to your
> list of problems.
>
> As usual, fraternal regards,
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2014, at 6:07 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com
> <mailto:apisanty at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> if a request for a clear problem statement is considered
>> stone-throwing we had better not attend NetMundial at all.
>>
>> I understand that the rest of the organization is trying to remain
>> open to ideas and challenges, and surely Carlos's reaction to my
>> polite request is not representative of the whole. I still expect
>> Brazil to be as usual a welcoming host.
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Carlos A. Afonso <ca at cafonso.ca
>> <mailto:ca at cafonso.ca>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear folks, I forgot to say that I expect some hard stone-throwing...
>> but also good comments.
>>
>> fraternal regards
>>
>> --c.a.
>>
>> On 04/15/2014 06:55 PM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
>> > Carlos
>> >
>> > so many of your statements here are false or twisted in your assumed
>> > implications that it hurts. No time to go over each of them;
>> plus it may
>> > become one more massive distraction. Let's go on to something
>> concrete:
>> >
>> > How do you propose to fix it? can you provide an example of a system
>> > that works like you wish to be the outcome of NetMundial? Like, a
>> > country that has started some serious, scalable fixes? Direct
>> > cause-effect links would be preferrable. Pick any paragraph if
>> you don't
>> > want to go over the whole list at once.
>> >
>> > Alejandro Pisanty
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
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