[discuss] List announcement "robust governance in the digital age"

[Seth Johnson]

So -- David would rather it not feed back from a group that has these
concerns, and volunteers to subscribe in order to interject his
disagreement with Michael Gurstein's framing.  One thing is, this
might trigger discussion here or on robustgov.  I am pleased to see it
discussed in either or both places!

I however freely participate on either list and don't have this
quixotic view opposing the very notion of an independently established
list for discussion among people who have a common concern!  :-)


Seth

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:18 AM, David Cake <dave at difference.com.au> wrote:
>         While I've subscribed to this list as its creation seems a fait accompli, I have absolutely no idea why this topic was considered apparently off-topic for this (or other IG focussed) list(s), and I think the idea of narrowly focussed mailing lists for particular policy issues to be an extremely poor choice of strategy for facilitating effective and inclusive policy discussion. At best it runs the danger of limiting discussion to a small number of particularly engaged participants, removing the participation of those who might have significant contributions to make but are not sufficiently focussed on that issue to join a new mailing list. At worst, it focusses discussion on a self-selected group of participants who agree with the initial framing on the issue.
>         FWIW, I'm joining this list particularly because I disagree with the framing presented by Michael Gurstein presented below, and believe that a discussion consisting only of those who agreed with that framing, but that could be plausibly presented as an outcome of the 1net community, would be counter-productive.
>         Regards
>
>                 David
>
>
> On 10 Feb 2014, at 3:38 am, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> hereby I to announce the creation of a new public discussion mailing
>> list on the topic of how to make Internet governance structures (and
>> also governance structures for other global concerns) robust against
>> capture and other forms of undue influence by special interests.
>>
>> http://digital-age.info/mailman/listinfo/robustgov
>>
>> This is going to be a topically narrow mailing list, and I'm going to
>> actively manage it to ensure that it stays that way and that it has an
>> excellent signal to noise ratio.
>>
>> The creation of this list was inspired significantly by a posting by
>> Michael Gurstein on the IGC and BestBits mailing lists (quoted in full
>> below) in which he observes that in many discussions of Internet
>> governance structures, there is a naïve and dangerous implicit
>> assumption denying the possibility of "significant, well-funded, very
>> smart and quite likely unscrupulous forces looking to ... ensure the
>> dominance of their own corporate/national/institutional interests".
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>>>  On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I'm strongly in agreement with Michael that we absolutely need for
>>>    the design and discussion of governance mechanisms to strongly
>>> take these realities of particular interests (which are often in
>>> conflict with the public interest) explicitly into consideration.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As I'm reading the various messages and suggestions concerning
>>>> Brazil and following the discussion on this list and others I'm
>>>> struck by one overwhelming observation...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Folks here seem to be assuming that whatever develops with
>>>> respect to Internet Governance (and their own interventions)
>>>> are taking place in a world of benign and selfless actors
>>>> (stakeholders) whose only interest is in the public good and
>>>> the well-being of the Internet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thus proposals for this type of "decentralized" governance
>>>> structure and that proposal for the "management of decision
>>>> making through MSism" all are making the completely unwarranted
>>>> and dare I say, naïve and even dangerous assumption that there
>>>> are not significant, well-funded, very smart and quite likely
>>>> unscrupulous forces looking to insert positions that serve and
>>>> ensure the dominance of their own
>>>> corporate/national/institutional interests into whatever
>>>> emerges from whatever process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It really is hard to take any of this discussion very seriously
>>>> unless there is an attendant discussion on what measures
>>>> can/will be taken to ensure that these forces do not prevail...
>>>> that these processes are not captured and subverted... i.e. what
>>>> are the defensive strategies and institutional mechanisms that
>>>> "we" (CS) are advocating as part of whatever package we are
>>>> promoting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is no one in these CS discussions taking into consideration the
>>>> overwhelming resources of wealth and power that will be
>>>> impacted by whatever might emerge from these discussions and
>>>> the similarly overwhelming temptation (even in some cases the
>>>> responsibility) to do whatever it takes to twist the result to
>>>> support one's own narrow (corporate/national/institutional )
>>>> interests and what the significance of this observation has to
>>>> be for these discussions and their outputs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This isn't paranoia or USA or whatever bashing.  This is simple
>>>> common sense.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has no one here heard of Mr. Snowden and what he has been
>>>> telling us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> M
>>
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>
>
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