[discuss] Artificial conflation of issues not helpful. [Was: Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67]

Wed Feb 19 20:35:48 UTC 2014

Dominique:

Evidence of what?

Evidence that the US (and quite a number of other countries) engages in surveillance – yes.

Evidence that the US (and other countries) may overstep its bounds when engaging in surveillance – also yes.

Evidence that there is a linkage between the NSA activities and technical management of the root?  Show us where.  Prove your claims.  I don’t see it.

Evidence that there is a linkage between the location of ICANN and the IANA function and an advantage to the NSA?  Show us where.  Prove your claims.  I don’t see it.

You can’t just wave your hand and claim that the Patriot Act and NSA revelations are evidence of any specific thing, without being specific.

As for the burden of proof, it is the accuser that bears the burden of proof (except perhaps under totalitarian regimes) – at least by a preponderance of the evidence, if not by some greater measure (e.g., clear and convincing evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt).  If there is any “reversal” of the burden of proof, you are engaging in it.

If you have no proof, and you are just going on atmospherics and “questions of trust,” just say so.  You can be as suspicious as you like.  But if you want others to take action based on your suspicions, you’ll have to do better.

Greg Shatan

From: discuss-bounces at 1net.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org] On Behalf Of Dominique Lacroix
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:24 PM
To: discuss at 1net.org
Subject: Re: [discuss] Artificial conflation of issues not helpful. [Was: Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67]

Le 19/02/14 20:55, George Sadowsky a écrit :

In particular, I would assert that the real link between the NSA revelations and technical management of the root is the perception that both involve the same country, the USA.  I would claim that there is no technical linkage between the two.  Those that believe there is such a linkage have the obligation to describe in detail, with evidence, exactly what they believe that linkage is.

There is also a perception that ICANN and therefore the IANA function being located in the USA have given the NSA an advantage in being able to carry out their various surveillance activities.  I asset that this is not true. Those that believe there is such a linkage have the obligation to describe in detail, with evidence, exactly what they believe that linkage is.
Dear George and Shatan,
I usually don't share all Jefsey's visions (cause either I cannot understand them or I have no time enough to read their abstracts). But on this point I fear YOU have to give the world some evidence. Otherwise you could appear as trying to reverse the burden of proof.

The Patriot Act + NSA revelations ARE evidences for the whole world.
That is the very sad and tricky situation we have to face.

@+, best, Dominique

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