[discuss] African take on Net Neutrality

Thu May 15 18:29:25 UTC 2014

I don't know whether to say its false advertising, or just clear marketing.
There is difference between bandwidth and data cap; when telco says
unlimited bandwidth in bold they will have also written the data-caps
somewhere in small letters. Nevertheless one could also say that unlimited
is relative to the medium of connection used, especially if its a mobile
network.
ISP do all sort of things (especially in my region) to make money because
there are few national local loop connectivity and so one would resolve to
whatever is available.

Another related scenario that comes to mind; recently the upstream provider
of an organisations i am contact for (admin whois) requested their client
to pay for advertising their recently acquired IP address range. So the
question is, when a client pay to be part of a network should they be asked
to pay for such advertisement?

ISP make money from anything in Africa and those are possible areas that we
need to resist.

Regards

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:

> Chip
>
> That's just part of the problem. The other one is less than informed
> consumers. But the landscape is changing rapidly.
>
>
> *Ali Hussein*
>
> +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>
> Skype: abu-jomo
>
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
> "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will
> have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert Einstein
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 6:37 PM, "Chip Sharp (chsharp)" <chsharp at cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ali,
> It sounds like it was taken care of where it should have been, as false
> advertising.
>
> Chip
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 8:53 AM, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>
> @Milton
>
>
> In Kenya we have had cases of providers talking of 'Unlimited Internet'
> only to cap bandwidth after a certain threshold. Where would this fall
> under?
>
>
> PS - They stopped this misleading practice of advertising when consumers
> protested.
>
>
> Ali Hussein
>
>
> +254 770 906375 / 0713 601113
>
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>
> Skype: abu-jomo
>
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
>
> "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will
> have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert Einstein
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>
>
>
> On May 15, 2014, at 5:49 PM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
>
> Net neutrality is about nondiscriminatory access to content, applications
> and services. A bandwidth cap does not discriminate among content,
> applications and services. It is quintessentially neutral.
>
>
> Unless the provider's own services do not count against the cap and
> competitors do -- noting that it's a complicated and thorny issue.  But I
> wouldn't say "quintessentially".
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> It provides the end user with an incentive to conserve bandwidth, but it
> does not tell them whether to conserve by refraining from BitTorrent
> downloads or Netflix watching or email or whatever. You may think it is a
> bad idea on other grounds, or you may think it is a good idea. But there is
> no way that bandwidth caps are a NN issue.
>
>
> --MM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Carlos Raúl G. [mailto:crg at isoc-cr.org <crg at isoc-cr.org>]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 10:29 AM
>
> To: Carlos A. Afonso
>
> Cc: Milton L Mueller; Chip Sharp (chsharp); 1Net List
>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] African take on Net Neutrality
>
>
> Here we have it!
>
>
> Sorry Carlos A. I had not seen your response to Milton.
>
>
> Fully agree with your "transmission capacity" definition.
>
>
> On top, electric grids also make a difference between transmission and
> distribution because is the fine differences in bottlenecks at each level.
>
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
>
> +506 8335 2487
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
>
> El 14/05/2014, a las 07:40, "Carlos A. Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca> escribió:
>
>
> I would rephrase, Milton:
>
>
> "Any definition of net neutrality which makes it impossible to charge
>
> users who contract more data transmission capacity higher fees than
>
> people who contract less data transmission capacity is a reduction to
>
> the absurd of the whole idea. It's like saying a 3Gbps fiber link
>
> should be leased for the same monthly rate as a T1."
>
>
> I would drop the comparison with kWh, since it is a measure of energy
>
> flow, not of capacity (or available power, if you will).
>
>
> Contracts with data caps (equivalent to contracts with a cap on
>
> accumulated energy usage, to use your comparison, in which the
>
> electric company charges you more per additional kWh if you go beyond
>
> a monthly
>
> cap) exist for any capacity and we should strive to abolish data caps.
>
>
> [] fraterno
>
>
> --c.a.
>
>
> On 05/14/2014 10:12 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:
>
> Any definition of net neutrality which makes it impossible to charge users
> who use more data higher fees than people who use less data is a reduction
> to the absurd of the whole idea. It's like saying a 3Gb fiber link should
> be leased for the same monthly rate as a T1, or that charging electrical
> power by the kwh is unfair.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: discuss-bounces at 1net.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org<discuss-bounces at 1net.org>]
> On
>
> Behalf Of Jay Daley
>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:01 PM
>
> To: Chip Sharp (chsharp)
>
> Cc: 1Net List
>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] African take on Net Neutrality
>
>
> Hi Chris
>
>
> On 14/05/2014, at 12:52 pm, Chip Sharp (chsharp) <chsharp at cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Now is being proposed the idea that Net Neutrality includes business
> relationships that don't require direct manipulation of data flow in the
> network.  Zero rating is one example of this, but not the only one.
>
>
> Is this is really a Net Neutrality issue or is it an example of an
> innovative business offering?
>
>
> In countries where data caps are common this is often seen as a net
> neutrality issue.
>
>
> At a technical level the traffic is actually treated differently if the
> data cap is exceeded, when it will not be subject to the same sanctions
> applied to non-zero-rated traffic, which is commonly to rate limit or to
> block entirely.
>
>
> regards
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> My view is that we still need flexibility to allow for innovation in
> business practices of ISPs *and* edge providers.
>
>
> Chip
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>  This is an interesting read on network neutrality from an African
> internet perspective.  I would summarise it as saying the principle is
> critical. How regulators apply it has to be sensitive to local contexts.
> The writer is Steve Song.
>
>
> http://manypossibilities.net/2014/05/net-neutrality-in-africa/
>
>
> Anriette
>
>
>
> --
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> anriette esterhuysen
>
> anriette at apc.org
>
>
> executive director, association for progressive communications
>
>
>  www.apc.org
>
>
> po box 29755, melville 2109
>
> south africa
>
> tel/fax +27 11 726 1692
>
>
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>
>
>
>  ** I am employed by Cisco Systems, Inc, but these comments reflect
>
> my own opinion and not any position of Cisco. **
>
>
>
>
>
>
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*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
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The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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