[discuss] Fwd: Re: [WSF-Discuss] to my person ( - IUF 2015)
willi.uebelherr at riseup.net
Tue Aug 18 16:02:25 UTC 2015
i will give you the possibility to know about our discussion for the
Internet Ungovernance Forum (IUF) 2015 in Joao Pessoa in Brasil.
Parallel to the Internet Governance Forum (IGF).
In this time, we do not have a maillist for the IUF. I hope, our friends
in Brasil and Istanbul create it. Then we have the open space for an
open and free discussion about Ungovernance or Governance for the
Internet. And the people in the IGF-environment can be very important
and helpful in this discussion process to find the truth.
many greetings, willi
-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [WSF-Discuss] to my person
Datum: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:30:41 -0300
Von: willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at riseup.net>
An: iuf iuf partido pirata <iuf at partidopirata.org>
Kopie (CC): Iuri Guilherme <iuri at openmailbox.org>, Julia Reda
<julia.reda at piratenpartei.de>, Brigitta Jonsdottir
<birgittaj at althingi.is>, Amelia Andersdotter
<amelia.andersdotter at piratpartiet.se>, Fabiane Bogdanovicz
<fabianebolan at yahoo.com.br>, Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva at fsfla.org>, ASL
<asl at asl.org.br>, Uzoma Madukanya <cocoa-sunrise at web.de>, Quiliro
Ordóñez Baca <quiliro at riseup.net>, Fernando de Sá Moreira
<urbanoia at gmail.com>, Piratas Norio Salvador <piratasnorio at riseup.net>,
IUF Alternatif Bilisim <bilgi at alternatifbilisim.org>, Diego Saravia
<dsa at unsa.edu.ar>, Galleguindio Ramirez
<galleguindio at partidopirata.com.ar>, IUF Ali Rıza Keleş
<arkeles at alternatifbilisim.org>, IUF Etkinlik Kayıt
<kayit at alternatifbilisim.org>, IUF Ahmet Sabancı
<ahmet at ahmetasabanci.com>, Wolf Gauer <wgauer at gmail.com>, Umit Sahin
<umitsahin at sabanciuniv.edu>
many thanks for your answer and explanation.
My thema in general and for the IUF: Internet, the interconnection of
local networks. A transportsystem for digital data in packet form.
In the core stay the design principles, the principles of the
architecture. This, because the centralized system, what we have, is a
question of design principles: private star networks, connected in
private IXP (Internet Exchange Points) and this connected with private
backbones. Transfered as a private service from private ISP (Internet
Service provider), traders for private transport capacity, to the people.
We know from the beginning, that there was a principle condition: This
system have to be private controlled. Independent of all questions
about, what the people need and what the technology make possible.
Therefore, this transportsystem was not designed like the streets
between the communities.
To visualize the difference, i will create a map of the different
telecommunication transport systems in Brasil, i will use the existed
maps from other people in our world and i will create a map as a
proposal, what we need. We look for all forms of different electronic
transport system, because we need only one. For "Internet", telephone,
TV and radio and all forms of transport of digital data.
The basic is my proposal to NetMundial. It is always the core with all
principles. I have sent this text also to this list. In the NetMundial
maillist 1net.org you can follow the discussion last year. We see, this
people never want to discuss this proposal in an open way, because they
need the Governance as a base for her material existence. For her jobs.
The other question in a more private connection, particularly with
Quiliro in Ecuador and his friends, was the anonymity. Never the Net
Neutrality. And it is clear: For the routing we need the geographical
information. And some people do not like, that other people know, in
what community they live. But we should be clear. Only very few people
need this anonymity. The whistleblower and the real journalists and all
people, they act against repression and the clandestino groups. Against
any form of private ownership of common ressources, for local self
organisation and self determination.
But the problem for me is not a technical question. Because on the ways,
what are based on the technology, we can do it nearly all, what we need.
We can go through anonymisation networks, we can encrypt all our data
and we have have 2 parts of our IP address. The global and the local
part. The global part is open, because the router need the geographical
information. The local part is a local decision. Nobody need to know it
outside of the local network. And if you create a link to a local
network anywhere on our planet, you can do it.
We have to seperate the transport demands in the global space and our
specific using of our data. Like on the street. The people use dark
windows and closed boxes.
Much more important is, that today all the security system of the state
and state cooperations know, where you are. Only the people do not know.
This, because also for Cisco they need the geographical information. And
if you look in the different open and closed protocols you see it. And
this you see also in all OpenWrt routing protocols. All this algotithms
comes from military projects. They want to work with dynamical hidden
servers and nobody should know, where they are in this time. But this is
Maybe the most difficult part of my proposal is, that we have to
organize our independence in the technology. That we are able, local and
regional, to create the technical components self. This is a break of
the capitalistic production and distribution system and logic relations.
In this part, we have the biggest confrondation with the antagonism of
interests and with the lack of self-confidence of the local people. And
this part is for me the most important part.
The thema "Ungovernance" implies the own activity. Without that,
Ungovernance is impossible. And this is valid in all areas of our life.
And it is not important, in what space we start. This, because the
Internet for a free access to the free knowledge and free communication
is always a part. Therefore, i concentrate my doing and thinking to this
genaral instrument for our local independent economy.
many greetings, willi
Am 18/08/2015 um 09:01 schrieb iuf iuf partido pirata:
> Hello mates!
> We are finishing the preparations for a crowdfunding. (The main focus is to
> pay the passages of our guests , as Birgitta.)We will be launching at the
> most this week. (We will update the site http://iuf.partidopirata.org) At
> João Pessoa, for the Internet UNGOVERNANCE forum, we already have an
> auditorium for 300 people and certain infrastructure (Wi-Fi for live
> streaming, projections, etc)
> The recent "Hacking Team Leaks" shows that government forces of Brazil
> bought surveillance devices that go far beyond what is acceptable in
> combating and investigation of crimes. This week our Senate plans to
> increase custody of massive logs and data from one to three years, to all
> the population - with the classic excuse of fighting pedophilia, even
> though there are experiences in this sense that this type of action does
> not help avoiding or fighting these crimes as in the infamous case of
> Section 215 in the US and the EU Data Directive Retention.
> As political persecution , we could cite cases in Brazil during 2013 and at
> the World Cup , in which activists had their homes raided by police in
> warrant for " pirated software " and then processed by the most absurd
> accusations in media actions between government and corporate interests.
> Now we have a "anti-terrorism" law project. Very, very disturbing. There
> are numerous other problems in our country. Brazil is one of the countries
> in which it kills more journalists in the world. But it is not just in
> Brazil : the example of NetMundial , the hypocrisy of Governments who talk
> about multi-stakeholderism but don't actually practise it. We believe that
> the format of the IGF does not address the given issues. This is one of the
> reasons to propose a parallel forum in the first place. Our challenge is to
> provide a counterpoint, thus the need for supporters.
> Remember NETmundial: under the influence by governments and corporations,
> the final outcome document of the NETmundial forum became a weak, toothless
> and disappointing text. Why expect for something different now? Also, quite
> recently Marco Civil law has been discussed and approved in Brasil. At
> first, it came as a draft to protect citizens from authority abuse and
> garantee net neutrality - in which we had participated. But the final doc
> suffered many interferences and ended up as another viable force against
> citizens and leaving a blank space providing several hypothesis for
> breaking neutrality. To keep the long story short: what came from popular
> demands was quickly absorved by bigger companies and government for their
> own interests.
> The Marco Civil will be a big part of the discussion at IGF this year,
> along with clear net neutrality breaking iniciatives such as Internet.org.
> While waiting for final regulaments, there's been a call to society to send
> their thoughts and approval on this matter - which never meant they were
> actually heard. Government is not obligated to attend to our demands, as
> long as it shows we were 'heard'. It could be as well completelly deaf to
> people's call after all. (For your appreciation about Marco Civil, this is
> my article. Notice that this is not representing the view of IUF about this
> law, http://piratetimes.net/new-brazilian-law-strips-citizens-rights/ )
> At last, many of IUF supporters will also attend to IGF. The whole point is
> creating space for those not heard by the IGF, thus opening for true
> discussion. IUF must serve as a wake up call to citizens who truly wish to
> end mass surveillance and foster our freedoms online. We look forward to
> your help in building the IUF in 2015
> I hope to hear from you soon: ideas, suggestions , themes, lectures, etc.
> (My personnal contact: Phone (21) 31269898 (21) 98227-9981 Telegram
> 2015-08-16 15:02 GMT-03:00 willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at riseup.net>:
>> Dear Iuri and friends,
>> this is my first mail to the World Social Forum (WSF) discussion list. For
>> our Internet Ungovernance Forum (IUF) we need all spaces to spread the
>> information to the IUF meeting.
>> many greetings, willi
>> Salvador, Brasil
>> -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
>> Betreff: [WSF-Discuss] to my person
>> Datum: Sun, 16 Aug 2015 14:31:46 -0300
>> Von: willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at riseup.net>
>> An: WSF discuss <WorldSocialForum-Discuss at openspaceforum.net>
>> Dear friends,
>> because I'm new to this list, I want to introduce myself. Few names of
>> the members in this list are known to me. About a CC address in a mail
>> from Orsan Senalp I became aware of this list. And because I am very
>> interested in the project Internet Social Forum (ISF), they relate to
>> the principles of the WSF, I will also act in this environment.
>> Willi Uebelherr, german, 66 years, master electrician and engineer for
>> technical informatics. Since 4.5 years I live in Latin America. The
>> goal: The decentralization of the economy, so the local independent
>> economy, the basis for political independence. Independence in the
>> economy always rests on the local technical infrastructure and the
>> independence in the technology.
>> If we understand technology as the materialization of the laws of the
>> nature, then we understand what we have to do. According to my general
>> development principles, massively decentralized, massively parallel,
>> massively redundant, the development of local capacities for the
>> production of our material base of our existence stay always in the
>> foreground. So the local economy.
>> However, we also need to understand that economics has nothing to do
>> with money. We find money only in the distribution system and that is
>> something else entirely. The problems in our world are primarily a
>> result of centralization and monopolization. And this since the Roman
>> We have to understand the decentralization, local autonomy and local
>> self-organization as the essential break to a new world. Then it will be
>> easy. The tool for this: global cooperation. Thus we come to 2
>> principles: "Think globally, act locally" and "Knowledge is always world
>> On this basis, we can let the global network of free technology arise.
>> Free for all to participate in it. Free for all to use and apply the
>> results. "The free association of free members."
>> The focus of my activities is the Internet. The connection of all people
>> of our planet. Free and gratis, without restrictions. We need an
>> Internet, but it does not exist. So we have to let it occur. I would
>> like to bring my proposal for this purpose in this list. But still I do
>> not know if this is also the theme on this list. And in the Internet
>> Social Forum I can not be active in this time.
>> Maybe we need the World Internet Forum (WIF)? And the World Free
>> Technology Forum (WFTF)? With the World Social Forum (WSF) as the base?
>> It is clear that I run on the basis of my principles on massive
>> backlash. As in P2P Foundation, FLOK Ecuador, NetworkedLabour, Community
>> Intelligence, Just Net Coalition. The result has always been my
>> exclusion from these lists. And this I know already from Germany.
>> I am not willing to reassign me muzzled. Not even to practice "political
>> correctness". I speak and write the way I think and I respect that right
>> always for others. Therefore: "unity in diversity". We need the
>> diversity. It is the life. The monotony is the death.
>> with many greetings, willi
>> Salvador, Brasil
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