<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">A big +1 to the below from me here, not the first time Joe's said these things, nor the first time I've said similar things.<div><br></div><div>Candidly, it would be a great shame for events like the survey to recur. It damages the entire 1net proposition, which at its core is too good an idea to see go by the wayside. We do need a tent under which we can collaborate across stakeholder communities - but we need to trust the administration of that tent, and events like this most recent one don't inspire it at all.<br>
<br><div><div>On 4 Mar 2014, at 22:07, joseph alhadeff <<a href="mailto:joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com">joseph.alhadeff@oracle.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Colleagues:<br>
<br>
Many of my posts have focused on the need for process. They have
likewise focused on the need for both consultation and participation
within and across stakeholder groups. The 1-Net list has become to
many a vehicle for discussing issues with little limit as to detail,
scope or appropriate forum/time frame for resolution. That is as it
should be since 1-Net was not meant to only focus on Brazil. A
number of important issues have been raised in this and subsequent
threads about the proposed survey. While I understand that some may
see survey-monkey as a process solution, I don't see how it will
allow us to achieve consensus, especially as we have not all be
consulted in developing the questions. 1-Net has allowed various
points of view to emerge, be challenged and revised, but it would be
hard to say that there is a process for adoption, especially when a
number of commentators are not engaged in some of the most detailed
conversations . It remains unclear where and how that work product
would or should be be used beyond that of inputs of ideas for
information or reference. We have not identified any real process to
define what issues we are tackling in any truly representative
consensus manner for what venue or at what level of appropriate
detail, nor has there even been a clear articulation that such is
the mission of 1-Net. It would seem that Brazil in the Net Mundial
process had developed various committees for input development and
review to address those very issues... The survey may be an
interesting tool to gather some points of view related to certain
questions, but I do not see how it can be proposed as a statement of
1-Net consensus across stakeholders.<br>
<br>
Best-<br>
<br>
Joe<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/4/2014 11:40 AM, George Sadowsky
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:F53E95F4-D3E5-44FA-8C83-EC2DB691C970@gmail.com" type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div>All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a complete surprise.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First, unless I have amnesia or been asleep during the past
week, this is NOT a summary of discussions in this Forum.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Second, please point to evidence of a common feeling that
1net should provide formal input to NetMundial, or to any of the
foundation documents for this list that suggest such an outcome.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Third, who are the �we � referred to in the text below. This
is an anonymous document claiming a distinct turn in the conduct
of this form which I claim does not exist. Who are you?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fourth, it encourages convergence on a statement across all
participants, from multiple sectors, within the next 4 days.
This is an impossible task, even if it were the right thing to
do. (We�ve been trying to do this for years.) It will be a
motherhood document, a �lower that the lowest possible common
denominator� document. It will prove that 1net exists, but not
a lot more.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Fifth, I thought that the purpose of this list was NOT to
reach any kind of forced agreement in a short time frame. I
thought that: (1) is was meant to discuss Internet governance
issues, and if possible (2) inform NetMundial with a range of
opinions and possible assistance. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sixth, a stated goal seems to be what to �put forward to the
NetMundial meeting as representative of /1net�s view.� I didn�t
know that 1net had to have a point of view. We have had
discussions, some fruitful, some in the realm of science
fiction, and there have been some discussions that have provided
decent and interesting material for 1net.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Seventh, whoever is proposing this is suggesting that a
survey, announced by e-mail 16 hours before its close (!!) to
the �1net community,� a list of 600-1000 members, maybe 40-50 of
who have actually participated in this list, is going to provide
any useful information whatsoever? Even if this were a
worthwhile captivity, which it is not, such a process could not
be expected to yield any meaningful result.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Eighth, the expectation that �the statement should be viewed
as the broad perspective on Internet governance issues from the
/1net community,� is unrealistic. Rather it is high likely to
be a significant misrepresentation of what the opinions of the
community are, given the faulty process and the tight time frame
of the proposal. Those who are rabid in their opinions will
participate.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In summary:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- this is a bad idea</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it states that the �community enjoyed� a discussion that I
believe never really happened</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it is based on a feeling that we should provide formal
input that AFAIK was not felt </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it specifies a tight deadline for a previously unannounced
objective</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it significantly distorts the stated purpose of the 1net
list</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it will yield results of little value; the sample frame
will consist of those who (1) read their e-mail promptly (2)
have the time to respond (3)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- it has been imposed from an anonymous �above�</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Perhaps the anonymous �we� can respond to the above points.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>George</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Mar 4, 2014, at 1:32 AM, /1net Forums digest <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:info@1net.org">info@1net.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<table style="border: 1px solid rgb(221, 221, 221); position:
static; z-index: auto;" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding: 10px 10px; background-color: #eee;
border: 1px solid #ddd;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=http%3A%2F%2F1net.org&url_id=275d5ac348d8e2b8f87a20b50afccf20d2903a07" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold;
color: #006699;"> <img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://forum.1net.org/images/site-logo.png" style="max-height: 35px; min-height: 35px; height:
35px;"></a> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="background-color: #fff; padding: 10px 10px;
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:
14px;"> Here's a brief summary of the discussion on <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.1net.org&url_id=f27f10722599be5b646cf36e5b1b1281abf95932" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold;
color: #006699;">/1net Forums</a> since we last saw
you on 02-28-2014.
<h3 style="margin: 15px 0 20px 0; border-bottom: 1px
solid #ddd;">Recent posts the community enjoyed:</h3>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.1net.org%2Ft%2Fhelp-to-create-a-1net-statement-for-netmundial%2F128&url_id=7f9d7eba43d43b5f3d70a8183e7511214e546870" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold;
color: #006699;">Help to create a /1net statement
for NetMundial</a>
<div style="margin-left: 15px; margin-top: 20px;
max-width: 694px;"><p>Based on the feeling and importance that /1net
should provide some kind of formal input to the
NetMundial meeting in April, we have specifically
developed a statement and process to meet the
tight deadline for submitting input (Saturday 8
March).</p><p>The statement is built from the Montevideo
Statement, and split up into the two themes of the
NetMundial meeting. There shouldn't be anything in
this statement that is controversial or surprising
if you have been following Internet governance
discussions over the past four months.</p><p>A few quick things to note:</p>
<ul style="margin: 0 0 0 10px; padding: 0 0 0 20px;">
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">Having a /1net
statement should not in any way preclude people
from sending their own input to the NetMundial
meeting</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">The statement
should be viewed as the broad perspective on
Internet governance issues from the /1net
community. There is plenty of opportunity for
more in-depth discussions outside this singular
event</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">Given the tight
deadline, we should as much as possible avoid
suggestions that others will disagree with</li>
</ul><p>Process of converging on the content of the
statement:</p>
<ul style="margin: 0 0 0 10px; padding: 0 0 0 20px;">
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">An online survey
gives everyone the opportunity to review each
sentence within the draft statement. You can
simply agree with it (obviously the preferred
response), you can "Agree but�" and provide some
brief feedback, or you can disagree and explain
why you feel would need to change to the wording
in order for you to agree.</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">That survey will
run from now until the end of Tuesday (23:45
UTC),<br>
at which point it will close.</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">The results from
the survey will be analyzed to see what changes<br>
could be made to accommodate different views -
and statistics<br>
released to show what the feedback was (comments
will be published<br>
but not attributed).</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">On Thursday, a
reformed statement will be put to a second
survey sent<br>
to Steering Committee members who will act as
representatives of<br>
their stakeholder groups in deciding yes or no
to specific<br>
statements.</li>
<li style="padding-bottom: 10px">That survey will
close Friday and /1net coordinator Adiel
Akplogan<br>
will review the results and decide what can be
put forward to the<br>
NetMundial meeting as representative of /1net's
view.</li>
</ul><p>It is far more rushed than is ideal but given the
fact that there is only this week to reach
agreement, hopefully you will all see the value in
responding quickly and constructively.</p><p>You can find the survey and the statements at: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fs%2F1net-netmundial&url_id=5195d73724c12c9451ce6b05827bfb08d6a1c425" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight:
bold; color: #006699;">https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/1net-netmundial</a></p><p>Please note that the survey will automatically
close at 23.45 UTC on Tuesday 4 March.</p><p>Thank you for your input in advance.</p>
</div>
<span style="color:#666; font-size:80%"> This summary
email is sent as a courtesy notification from <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.1net.org&url_id=f27f10722599be5b646cf36e5b1b1281abf95932" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold;
color: #006699;">/1net Forums</a> when we haven't
seen you in a while. To unsubscribe <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mandrillapp.com/track/click.php?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.1net.org%2Femail%2Funsubscribe%2F96cf05a55cdf0decc70d10bb043a6939c10da49b4221588913e04248c56e274b&url_id=475268c0907ecd170853a9e89cb07127e91dd106" style=" text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold;
color: #006699;">click here</a>. </span> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<img moz-do-not-send="true" src="imap://joseph%2Ealhadeff%40oracle%2Ecom@stbeehive.oracle.com:993/fetch%3EUID%3E/Drafts%3E4090?u=30143381&id=db94d9ea201149868230d2317299c105" height="1" width="1">
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br>http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>