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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For a variety of personal and other reasons I’ve had very limited time/bandwidth for matters such as contributions to NetMundial over the last couple of months or so. Whatever time/bandwidth I’ve had available I’ve chosen to apply it in areas where I think I could make my best contribution notably the Community Informatics Declaration and the Just Net process and statements.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I see little value or probable contribution in generating ad hoc “models” of governance as you (and others) have been calling for. I’ll leave that to the proponents of a shape shifting MSism where there appears to be a new “model” to respond to every challenge or contingency and yet no one is willing to answer some quite simple and direct questions concerning process and procedure, accountability and transparency, methodology and so on however hard they work at propagating the meme.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would be delighted to undertake/participate/contribute to a serious effort to work through the very complex and extraordinarily important issues associated with Internet (and other) Governance in a post-Snowden Internetworked environment. Unfortunately no one seems willing to take these matters on with the seriousness that I think they warrant, preferring it appears to propagate slogans rather than concepts, and presumptions rather than analyses.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My own starting point for these matters including if you want, my approach to Democracy in an Internet post-Snowden environment is subsumed within the CI Declaration and the Just Net documents which dare I say, is rather more of an explicit starting point than anything I have yet seen from the MSists among us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> John Curran [mailto:jcurran@istaff.org] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 13, 2014 4:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br><b>Cc:</b> discuss@1net.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [discuss] Will there be life on 1net after IANA is globalized? (:-)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Mar 13, 2014, at 2:54 PM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In reviewing the materials for the meeting, there does indeed seem to be a presumption<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>that a multistakeholder approach is the appropriate model for conducting the discussions<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>(for example, one can look at the meeting title itself) If you have a significant concern with <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>the NetMundial structure, that's probably something that would be best to take up with the <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>convener.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[MG>] well since I/we were deliberately excluded from making an active contribution to the formulation of these issues by the actions of 1Net and its lack of legitimate process, transparency, accountability, or capacity to accommodate effective diversity (i.e. normative (rather than identity) diversity); your comment is shall we say, rather bizarre </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Not at all - my comment is simply that if you have an issue with NetMundial, take it up with<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>them, and if you have an issue with the 1net processes, again feel free to take it up with the <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>steering committee. I'm neither, and simply note that it appears that you've put far greater <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>focus on detracting from other contributions over making any concrete proposals yourself.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>[MG>] You are again mis-presenting the issue. The question is not “multistakeholder” vis “non-multistakeholder” but rather the way in which the process is undertaken—how it handles or not things like (normative) diversity, conflict, threats, conflicts of interest, capture and so on. No one I think, would argue that the various groups/interests/”stakeholders” shouldn’t be involved in the discussions concerning matters of Internet governance </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Excellent; we apparently have agreement on at least that one point (desirability of involving<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>various groups/interests in discussion concerning matters of Internet governance)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>but the question is what are the rules that govern those processes and how is an assurance provided that the process and the outcome is in the global interest rather than being subverted to support one or another (or combination) of private/sectional/national interests.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Definitely an interesting topic... do you have any actual suggestions on how an Internet<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>governance framework should address the complexity of governments/stakeholders <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>shaping the outcome? The Netmundial call for contributions specifically asked for input<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>in that area, so would be rather surprising if you did not submit anything for consideration.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Are there any existing contributions that you feel may touch on the same matters and be<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>particularly important for everyone to consider in light of the potential for subversion that<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>you've raised? Forgive my asking if should be obvious, but there are 187 contributions<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>and I have not made it through them all (yet)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So far I have yet to hear anything concerning these. All I hear are repeated statements that MSism is all good things for all good people, but no recognition that in the absence of clarity around rules and regs and including processes for their enforcement all we are being asked to buy are repeated incantations of “trust me” from folks among whom have to be included tax dodgers, Internet “arsonists”, self-absorbed techies, and a rather large collection of folks who have no interest in or understanding of what might be meant by a “global public interest” and certainly little interest in pursuing in their deliberations and decision making much beyond narrow corporate or national self-interests.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have no idea who you are referencing in the above; I predominantly see folks on this list<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>trying to constructively explore and discuss the issues surrounding Internet governance;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I was simply trying to figure out why you chose not to put any contributions forward on<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>those aspects that you've highlighted.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>/John<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Disclaimer: My views alone.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>