<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">On Mar 15, 2014, at 5:19 PM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> </o:p></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">As I mentioned before, I think it is unrealistic to expect proposals concerning broad based Internet Governance structures to be pulled holus bolus out of a hat...<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p><br></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px;">Michael -</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p><div><br></div></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> Agreed, but </o:p><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I will note however that the question of phasing out NTIA's oversight of the</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> IANA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> is not</span><o:p style="font-size: 11pt;"> necessarily the same question as determining structures for "</o:p><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;">broad based</font></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"> Internet </font>Governance"... much of that depends on what you expect the oversight role</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> to cover: simply IANA tasks (which are administrative/clerical in nature) or the entire</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> registry system, including oversight of policy development, etc.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> </o:p></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I do think however, that realistic places to start are<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> 1. an articulation of goals, norms, values to underlie whatever structures of governance are established e.g.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Does the proposed mechanism have sufficient means to ensure accountability<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Does the proposed mechanism have sufficient means to ensure/enforce transparency<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Is the proposed mechanism inclusive of normative as well as identity based diversity<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Does the proposed mechanism have a foundation in generally accepted rights based norms and practices<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Does the proposed mechanism have a foundation in principles and practices supportive of the public interest and the public good<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means in place to accommodate and enable conflict<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">2. an identification of risks, threats and procedures for an effective response to e.g.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means in place to identify and resist capture<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means in place to identify and resist subversion<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means to overcome resource imbalance as between participants restricting effective participation<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means available to identify and resist inappropriate frame setting<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 1.25in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-indent: -0.25in;"><span style="font-family: Symbol;"><span>�<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span>Are there means to overcome systematic exclusion<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">And of course these lists are not complete nor without controversy. In fact, a first order of business should be the review of these lists and the development of a process for articulating and validating these elements.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div> Your process above (and initial lists) seem like an excellent suggestion on how</div><div> to start this process (and hopefully will be considered by those on this list). I do </div><div> know know what process has been envisioned for development of IANA transition</div><div> plan (other than the materials accompanying the NTIA release) nor what aspects</div><div> of Netmundial discussion on Internet governance will touch on these topics...</div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><o:p> </o:p></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">A (preferably critical and independent) analysis of the MS experience with the IETF and ICANN processes would be a useful place to start but recognizing the highly significant differences between decisions made concerning largely technical issues and decisions made concerning largely policy/�political� issues.</span></div></blockquote><br></div><div> Good question - I am not aware of any such studies with respect to IETF processes; I am </div><div> sure that folks on this list can suggest several critical analyses of ICANN's MS decisional</div><div> processes (simply because ICANN tends to get more attention than the IETF in general)</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks!</div><div>/John</div><div><br></div><div>Disclaimer: My views alone.</div><div><br></div></body></html>