<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Dear Seun, inline responses<br>
<br><div><div>On 17 Mar 2014, at 10:11, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Hello Nick,<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I disagree.<div><br></div><div>The international community does need a way to discuss surveillance - but Internet governance is not that venue, for the simple reason that the surveillance issue is about surveillance and not the Internet. </div>
<div><br></div><div>The issue of mass surveillance is really asking the question of how do countries treat non-nationals in their national security activities. The fact that the Internet is used as a tool for surveillance is really irrelevant to the question, just as the Internet is used for distribution of illegal material like those related to child exploitation but that is primarily an enforcement of laws issue, not an Internet issue.</div>
<br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><div>IG does not need to be about everything where there is an Internet dimension - or no solution to any problem can be found.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However: the political demands for action over surveillance are impacting the Internet as we all know - so we do have a vested interest in ensuring that the core issue of mass surveillance is addressed, just not primarily by us, and not in IG.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just to get the flow right, when you say "us" whom do you refer? and when you say mass surveillance is not an IG issue then what issue is it? My expectation is that the IG platform will provide an avenue to discuss the issue and then propose solutions which countries will then turn to legal content applicable to them. If the issues are not discussed then it will be difficult to know what they are and address them. Bringing then to IG fora will help give it a voice that could hopefully get to the listening hears of government and relevant authorities. <br></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>"Us" meaning the IG community. As to what issue it is, it is, as I described, an issue of surveillance, not the Internet. So, the human rights dimensions are currently being actively addressed in the Human Rights Council and related processes. The exchange of data for criminal and national security purposes are governed by MLATs (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties) - <a href="http://Access.org">Access.org</a> has an excellent website devoted to MLAT reform at <a href="http://www.mlat.info">www.mlat.info</a>.</div><div><br></div><div>Bringing this issue to IG fora will harmfully conflate issues which have nothing to do with IG with IG issues, and contaminate (further) Internet governance with a great deal of politicisation. I would hope that we all don't want to see the security, stability, and universality of the Internet further polluted with politics of national security and safety.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>As per the NetMundial, i agree with Avri that from recent happenings, ICANN-IANA related issues may carry the majority of the agenda which ofcourse was not the only reason why the event was conjured in the first place. However since the ICANN-IANA discussion will start from ICANN49 i think some foundational progress will have been made to further lighten up the NetMundial agenda to accommodate the other half of the goal which is largely related to mass surveillance.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think if NetMundial is consumed with ICANN issues that will be both a mistake and a huge missed opportunities. Finding a way to agree on principles, and what is, and is not, appropriate for IG policy to address would be a significant added value; there is also no other global forum designed to produce outcomes along these lines. The discussion of internationalizing ICANN has a home for discussions: ICANN.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with recent development on ICANN-IANA, as it is good news. However we should also not let that overwhelm the other present concerns. Lets remember that the ICANN-IANA processes is to prevent the future "what-IFs" while mass surveillance on the other hand is currently happening and we should not neglect that.</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>"we" cannot solve national security issues. All we can do is insist that the various aspects of national security use of data and the rules by which non-nationals are treated are dealt with - in the fora where they are already under discussion.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>
<br></div><div>Regards<br></div><div> <br></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers!<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br><div><div>On 17 Mar 2014, at 06:16, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-size:16px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<br>On Sunday 16 March 2014 09:51 PM, Victor Ndonnang wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">+1 Adiel.<br>Surveillance and intelligence agencies was there before the Internet. Even<br>if the Internet has a role in the mass surveillance...USG/NTIA intent to<br>
transfer IANA and root zone management related to the global independent<br>Multistakeholder entity is not a response to the mass surveillance issue.<br></blockquote><br>Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not constitute any real response to mass surveillance problem. And since NetMundial came out of a series of events directly connected to the mass surveillance problem, and which is the main reason the 'global community' invested into it, it is only fair to the people across the world that we have<br>
<br>1. discussions on this issues, and others related to larger international public policy issues pertaining to the Internet , and<br>2. come up with proposals regarding these issues.<br><br>I have seen almost nil work on this list in this regard. ICANN oversight issue should not be allowed to overshadow these much more important and pressing global public policy issues. I fear this is what is happening. A good reason of course is structural about what 1Net is.<br>
<br>parminder<br><br><blockquote type="cite">May be that Global Multistakeholder entity will be the IETF or I... to help<br>strengthen security, privacy and trust on the Internet.<br>The Internet Governance is mainly a technical thing, let's leave the<br>
technical community takes care of it with the full participation and inputs<br>of others stakeholders.<br>Regards,<br>Victor.<br><br><br><br><br>-----Message d'origine-----<br>De : <a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a> [<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>] De la part<br>
de Adiel Akplogan<br>Envoy� : Sunday, March 16, 2014 8:48 AM<br>� : Seun Ojedeji<br>Cc : 1 Net List; Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus - IGC<br>Objet : Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement<br><br>I disagree as well. In this discussion it is very important to dissociate<br>
the USG/NTIA by role in the performance of IANA function by ICANN and the<br>issue related to mass surveillance. The two are not technically linked and<br>should be addressed separately.<br><br>- a.<br><br>On Mar 16, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br><blockquote type="cite">Well I would not disagree that mass surveillance indeed continues.<br><br>Any NSA statement that says otherwise?<br><br>Cheers!<br>sent from Google nexus 4<br>kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
<br>On 15 Mar 2014 19:08, "Joly MacFie" <<a href="mailto:joly@punkcast.com" target="_blank">joly@punkcast.com</a>> wrote:<br>Disagree,<br><br>Different department.<br><br>j<br><br><br>On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) <<a href="mailto:pouzin@well.com" target="_blank">pouzin@well.com</a>><br>
</blockquote>wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">Hi,<br><br>The IANA ballyhoo comes from the same factory as the "internet freedom"<br></blockquote>smoke screen launched before WCIT. It's a spin diversion for the show.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Mass surveillance continues. What's new ?<br><br>Louis<br><br><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
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<font color="#888888"><blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;font-family:garamond,serif">
<i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Seun Ojedeji,<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">web: </span><a href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng/" target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">Mobile: <a value="+2348035233535">+2348035233535</a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)"></span><br></i><i><span style="color:rgb(0,102,0)">alt email:<a href="http://goog_1872880453/" target="_blank"> </a><a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><br>
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