<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Hello Andrew and George,</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">With MS-ism, there seems to be an increased awareness that stakeholders are not on an equal footing, that decisions taken according to MS processes are not predictable and this clashes with the promise of empowerment for all that MS seems to have made. Discouragement, disillusion and frustration will certainly follow. </div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;
background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"> </div><div></div><div> </div><div>Nathalie</div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> discuss@1net.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 28, 2014 10:02 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [discuss] What is MSism?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 08:07:38AM -0400, McTim wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> It is clear that many of us (most of us I am guessing) on 1Net prefer<br clear="none">> direct
democracy:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">There is something faintly circular in the reasoning there. I'm not<br clear="none">sure it matters what most on this list prefer, because I don't think<br clear="none">that this list was set up on the principles of voting or democracy.<br clear="none">Certainly, if it was, it's news to me.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Importantly, for anything impinging on the functioning of the<br clear="none">Internet, I am not in favour of direct democracy. If the discussions<br clear="none">on this list have demonstrated anything, it is that there is a vast<br clear="none">number of people who have such deep technical confusion about how the<br clear="none">Internet actually works as to be disqualified from having an opinion<br clear="none">on what should be done with it. People are of course entitled to<br clear="none">their own opinions, but I don't think that all opinions on technical<br
clear="none">matters of fact ought to have equal standing. Hence Dave Clark's<br clear="none">famous adage about the IETF: "We reject: kings, presidents and voting.<br clear="none">We believe in: rough consensus and running code."<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Given that 1Net is all about MSism:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have been a little frustrated by these threads about what "MSism"<br clear="none">is, and I have a sneaking suspicion that this is because it isn't one<br clear="none">thing. For instance, many people think ICANN, the IETF, and the RIRs<br clear="none">are multistakholder organizations. To the extent that is true, it's<br clear="none">revealing, because they work in very different ways. Most of the RIRs<br clear="none">have some notion of membership, usually relating to whether one holds<br clear="none">allocations from the region. Moreover, the RIRs are already<br clear="none">implicitly
tied to geography (itself a problematic notion on the<br clear="none">Internet). ICANN has constituencies, and one nominally works through<br clear="none">those consituencies, though of course public comment is widely<br clear="none">welcome. The IETF does not have formal consituencies or membership,<br clear="none">and anyone is welcome to comment on anything on the mailing list, but<br clear="none">one tends to be ignored if one's arguments don't get support or at<br clear="none">least acknowledgement from others.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">What seems to me to be a common thread among these things, however, is<br clear="none">that the mechanisms are different adaptations to trying to get as many<br clear="none">relevant and informed opinions into the "tussle" about tricky<br clear="none">problems. In this sense, the precise definition is less important, I<br clear="none">think, than the style of working. So,<br
clear="none"><br clear="none">> Those MS processes aren't about power, but largely about which ideas<br clear="none">> are better than others […].<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I think this is where we should concentrate.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Best regards,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">A<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Andrew Sullivan<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><div class="yqt0773336085" id="yqtfd64360"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">discuss mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:discuss@1net.org" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
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