<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
There may have been a few conflating threads. For me the concern
was not generated by existing standards bodies in general which
while they need transparency in their operating rules probably don't
need dedicated external oversight structures, but rather the new
organization that a number of folks proposed on the list that has a
more operational component... <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/2/2014 2:43 PM, Alejandro Pisanty
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOxRbV-SCRz6gSPXzvnTip=j7tPj5NTHOr-4rgKGXMWEMh4PyQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Andrew, Parminder, all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>for those who are genuinely concerned about the "social"
oversight of standards-development bodies, the job starts
mostly at home, national standards organizations. That is
where most acutely standards-development processes may be
subject to capture by industry, collusiont with corrupt
officials, the effects of shear cluelessness of these
officials. That is where foodstuffs, automobile parts and
tyres, electrical equipment, asphalt, cement, milk, etc. get
their norms and standards and where citizens are screwed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Looking at the global scale, and closer to our field, what
good did governmental or intergovernmental political oversight
do for the ISO 29500 standardization? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's step ahead from this political-fiction episode; it
may have left some usefull lessons. There may be work to be
done where they can be used. We'll know when we get there.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Andrew
Sullivan <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 06:17:51PM +0530, parminder wrote:<br>
> normally accepted that technical functions of public
importance,<br>
> although often undertaken by expert technical bodies,
must be<br>
> subject to larger public oversight through appropriate
institutional<br>
> forms.<br>
<br>
Sure. "Laws." That is, to the extent that technical bodies
are<br>
subject to public oversight, it's normally under the aegis
of national<br>
law. And of course, everyone participating in an IETF
discussion is<br>
subject to the relevant (mostly local) laws at the time and
place of<br>
contribution.<br>
<br>
But what you seem to be imagining is some sort of oversight
beyond<br>
that. I'm not at all sure that it is "normally accepted"
that such<br>
technical functions are indeed subject to the "larger public<br>
oversight" you're talking about, at least in the abstract.<br>
<br>
It may be that for specific things, like deployment on a
road or use<br>
as an elevating device or so on, public policy concerns may
come in.<br>
For instance, the Society of Automotive Engineers publishes
certain<br>
recommendations about motor oil for lubrication; these
standards are<br>
not controlled by any government, but are determined via the
SAE<br>
process. They are in turn used by automobile manufacturers,
who<br>
specify their use, and also incorporated along with other
standards in<br>
pollution control regulations imposed by different
jurisdictions,<br>
often when adopted or otherwise incorporated by a national
standards<br>
body; this latter is what makes ISO necessary. And these
local<br>
incorporations tend to differ area by area according to
local rules<br>
and customs and expectations. We see that on the Internet
today.<br>
<br>
What you seem to be talking about is an overall political
control over<br>
technical bodies generally. I'd like an example of
something that is<br>
like this where it is "normally accepted" that they are
subject to<br>
"larger public oversight through appropriate institutional
forms".<br>
<br>
> It is in this sense that the political/ public
administration<br>
> concept of 'delegated authority' was used by me,<br>
<br>
I think there's something more to what you are arguing,
which is that<br>
there is this overarching "public administration" layer
under which<br>
everything is subsumed. I am not sure I agree with this
picture of<br>
the organization of society, and I suspect that attempts to
work out a<br>
way forward would founder on a basic difference over how
societies<br>
ought to be organized. So this is indeed a fundamental
point.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
A<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
discuss mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss"
target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><br>
</font></span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614"
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>