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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Alejandro,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The problem with approaching the “public interest” in the way that you are suggesting is that notions of the public interest are at the normative level which means that they are values that underlie the entire range of decisions and perspectives in a particular area rather than something from which one can pick and choose.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As an example, a “public interest” approach to public transit will make provide criteria concerning decisions about routing, stops, pricing and so on based on how to optimize benefits to the public rather than how to optimize return on privatized investment.� From my experience municipally owned public transit looks rather different from transit in places where it is privately owned/managed. Of course, there will need to be considerations of financial sustainability (and trade-offs between subsidies for public transit and other calls on the public purse) and there are considerations of local culture (including political culture) as between different locales, but you get my point…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think that as the significance and scope of deployment of the Internet grows and the Internet becomes even more ubiquitous the calls for (and arguments in support of) seeing the Internet as a (global?) public utility operating (i.e. being “governed”) “in the public interest” are growing apace at least outside of circles dominated by a neo-liberal ideology.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Given the heightened awareness following the current struggles against neo-liberal ideology driven privatization of water supplies in various parts of Latin American I would hope that issues of how to treat the Internet as a public good would be a focus of discussion in Sao Paulo.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> discuss-bounces@1net.org [mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alejandro Pisanty<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Curran<br><b>Cc:</b> discuss@1net.org List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [discuss] Current drive<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>John,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>at this point an asymmetric approach to the problem may be productive (addressing Michael Gurstein and Parminder Jeet Singh as well): <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Very briefly: Frank LaRue, the UN Special Rapporteur for Freedom of Expression, has proposed for years that instead of defining "Internet rights" positively, in detail, etc. we focus on the rights themselves and prevent, prosecute and punish their violations independently of whether "online" is involved or not (disclaimer: very briefly, my own summary for this discussion.)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In the same mode of thinking the questions about public interest can be recast. What specifically goes against the public interest, and how vital is it to solve it? (solving one problem has the cost of opportunity of not solving others.) A framework similar to risk management (identifying separately probability and impact; assessing the risk/damage-cost-benefit relations) may be useful.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This approach may quickly lead us to productive steps on the problem Milton continues to discuss and the one now posed by George. The other approach seems to me to have been wrung drier than by lyophilization. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yours,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Alejandro Pisanty<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:33 PM, John Curran <<a href="mailto:jcurran@istaff.org" target="_blank">jcurran@istaff.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Apr 3, 2014, at 5:12 PM, Sivasubramanian M <<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com" target="_blank">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>If this is agreed, then we also need to agree that such an effort requires resources, though I wouldn't brand the flow of revenues as "taxes" or "rent". If ICANN acknowledges its broader role and starts "investing" in broader causes of Global Public interest of importance to the Internet, then Michael Gurstein's "other points" are automatically answered. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>It is not clear that ICANN (or the rest of Internet identifier system) has an direct and <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>inherent role to promote "global public interest", although successful administration of <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>the Internet identifiers should definitely help contribute to that goal and thus result in <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>the system doing its "share" towards global public interest with respect to the Internet.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>There is, however, a question that needs to be asked related to resources and allocation, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>but it is more focused on the actual role of proper administration of the Internet identifier <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>system itself, and whether or not there is an inherent responsibility to provide resources <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>towards the principle of inclusiveness. To wit, can a system commit to a value principle <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>such as:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br> " – Open and Inclusive: Discussions are open to all and structured to encourage the broadest range of relevant inputs from all interested parties. Input provided is valued and heard by all. All documents are freely available online. Processes for public comment and remote participation are provided wherever feasible, and without requirements for participation other than decorum. "<br><br>without also specifically supporting making resources available to interested parties who </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>may not otherwise to be able to participate in discussions? Some outreach/engagement</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>/capacity building of this nature is already being done, because it is recognized as both </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>necessary and desirable, but that is different than enshrining it as a fundamental principle </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>(and thus also imply the need for some objective measures of success?)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br>In the terms of fulfilling an "inclusiveness" objective, should it be required that a certain</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>amount of resources (in terms of percentage of total resources, or towards geographic </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>coverage of participants, or some other metric) be provided for outreach and engagement </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>measures? How does one measure that such activities are successful, and administer </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>them to avoid introduction of selection bias into the system and its outcomes?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'><br>If we revisit the entire Internet identifier registry system 20 years from now, will it be </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>viewed as successful if resources aren't being provided for aiding the engagement of </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>those who cannot otherwise afford to participate? Do we need a more specific principle</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>and/or criteria regarding what constitutes "inclusiveness" to make sure that our future</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Internet identifier system is performing as expected when it comes to inclusiveness and</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>the resources made available for this purpose? In particular, do we need to specifically</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>need some form of principle that discusses resources being made available for the </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>purpose of supporting inclusiveness?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>There are folks with far more experience in capacity building and engagement building</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>than I, and it would be good to understand their expectations in this area (and hence</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>gain insight into aspects of the underlying principles that we might want to enshrine </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>into the system itself.)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Thanks!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>/John</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#333333'>Disclaimer: My views alone.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>discuss mailing list<br><a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br><a href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>Facultad de Qu�mica UNAM<br>Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>+525541444475 DESDE M�XICO SMS +525541444475<br>Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>