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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 14 April 2014 06:52 PM,
joseph alhadeff wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:534BE0FE.4000309@oracle.com" type="cite">
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Milton:<br>
<br>
I guess I see these as two discussions which could be developed on
parallel and potentially/likely intersecting paths (one narrowly
focused, the other, more broadly conceptualized) but any outcome
would still need to meet the NTIA criteria. I see no downside to
discussions of a range of mechanisms of governance, but discussing
the possibility of Congressional action seems less productive. I
am also concerned that when we speak of democratic inclusiveness
from those potentially impacted, we also keep in mind the
operational requirements of the Internet and governance
mechanisms. Even the more symbolic oversight functions require
some level of knowledge of the ecosystem and implications of
decisions on that ecosystem. While a large number of users may
well be potentially impacted, the vast majority of them have
little knowledge of the working of DNS systems and related
technology or the nuances of principles of governance. How do we
include them? I try to stay away from exclusionary language, but
an not sure how to accommodate the realities of not every
conversation or decision-making process being appropriate for, or
open to, all people...<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Joseph<br>
<br>
Democratic inclusiveness is not a planned activity as a kind of add
on, it is people's right.... And no one has a right to be second
guessing what people think is right for them.... Now, at one level
we may just be considering a committee which should be charged to
recommend the appropriate oversight for ICANN, or whether there
should be none. Any set of intelligent people after hearing all
sides and going through all the available material and after intense
discussions among them, can come up with the appropriate model..
What is important is (1) their legitimacy and (2) the breadth of
experience and expertise in different sectors of public affairs,
which are impacted by the Internet. Technical community can make any
number of presentations, and if still it thinks these 'other people'
wont understand, so bad for them (the technical community) . I think
such kind of techno-centricism and -aloofness if not -superiority is
not right in pulbic affiars - and oversight of the basic Internet's
critical resources is centre and front a public affair. Let the
people decide it. It they think that the final oversight body does
need some kind of technical expertise, they will make sure that it
has that kind of technical expertise. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:534BE0FE.4000309@oracle.com" type="cite"> <br>
Best-<br>
<br>
Joe <br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/14/2014 9:01 AM, Milton L
Mueller wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Joe:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>There
is a challenge on the table to develop a solution that will
credibly <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>meet the NTIA conditions. To date that is at best a
work in progress. <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>You don't need to have Congressional action for a
failure to meet those <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>criteria to result in the status quo. The best path
forward on these matters <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>is to develop a truly credible solution that
protects stability, functionality <span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>and unity while remaining a non-governmental,
multistakeholder solution, <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>not subject to capture or subversion by those
elements that would try to <span style="color:#1F497D"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">>
</span>make the Internet less open. <span
style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Agreed,
we need to focus on the IANA transition, and general
discussions of what is democracy do not contribute to
that. However, it is legitimate for people to relate
specific proposals to broader governance principles.
Indeed, that is unavoidable. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As
for developing solutions, there are a number of specific
plans on the table. The IGP proposal is one, but I am
still a big fan of the InternetNZ diagrams, which parse
out the various activities and functions and show how
different proposals might structure them. <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetgovernance.org/2014/03/27/mapping-out-the-iana-transition/">http://www.internetgovernance.org/2014/03/27/mapping-out-the-iana-transition/</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
would propose this as a reference point for discussion.
There is plenty of constructive activity and discussion
that can happen if we start with that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What
is not helpful, or constructive, is for ICANN’s scoping
document to tell us that any such discussion is out of
scope. That gambit has completely derailed constructive
planning and proposal-making around the transition. That
is why we and many others have rejected the scoping
document and proposed a modified version here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nYQwmfTB52fLwT88RpAyGd3kD69rBLXbnG5zi5IT9yw/edit?usp=sharing">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nYQwmfTB52fLwT88RpAyGd3kD69rBLXbnG5zi5IT9yw/edit?usp=sharing</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
Joe<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/13/2014 9:53 AM, michael gurstein
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Accepting
for the moment the argument that the USG has been
completely benign and acting completely in support of the
global public interest in its stewardship of the Internet,
shouldn’t someone somewhere be doing the deep thinking
involved in figuring out what to do if/when the
USG/Congress says to the world… “The Internet is ours, we
paid for it, and you can’t have it or you can have it only
on our terms… (or the diplomatic/technical equivalent)…
and without of course, having any clear idea of what that
does (or could) mean.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">M<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b>Dewayne Hendricks</b> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dewayne@warpspeed.com">dewayne@warpspeed.com</a>><br>
Date: Sunday, April 13, 2014<br>
Subject: [Dewayne-Net] GOP, Dems Clash Over Online Domain
Name Oversight<br>
To: Multiple recipients of Dewayne-Net <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dewayne-net@warpspeed.com">dewayne-net@warpspeed.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
GOP, DEMS CLASH OVER ONLINE DOMAIN NAME OVERSIGHT<br>
By ALAN FRAM<br>
Apr 10 2014<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bigstory.ap.org/article/gop-dems-clash-over-online-domain-name-oversight"
target="_blank">http://bigstory.ap.org/article/gop-dems-clash-over-online-domain-name-oversight</a>><br>
<br>
WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican opposition to Obama
administration plans to spin off U.S. oversight of the
Internet's domain name system is evolving into an
election-year political fight, with GOP lawmakers using it
as the latest front in their attacks on President Barack
Obama's trustworthiness.<br>
<br>
"We've seen enough out of this administration and its
imperial presidency politics that I'm not going to just
give them a blank pen and then walk away," Rep. Greg
Walden, R-Ore., said Thursday as a House subcommittee he
chairs voted to impose a one-year delay in implementing
any changes so congressional investigators could study the
issue.<br>
<br>
The party-line 16-10 vote came as administration officials
defended their proposal at other congressional hearings.
And Democratic lawmakers said Republican warnings that the
Internet could be turned over to hostile governments were
the stuff of fantasy.<br>
<br>
"It's not a conspiracy or a digital black helicopter,"
Rep. Anna Eshoo, D-Calif., said in a sarcastic reference
to 1990s-era claims by some militias and other right-wing
groups about government surveillance aircraft. "It's a
plan, and I think it's time to move forward with it."<br>
<br>
The back and forth comes during a campaign season in which
Republicans have vilified Obama as exceeding his powers by
taking steps such as delaying various deadlines set by his
health care overhaul law, which they solidly oppose.<br>
<br>
The latest dispute is over an administration announcement
last month that it wants to give up its oversight of the
non-profit U.S. corporation that manages the Internet's
system of addresses, such as <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ap.org" target="_blank">www.ap.org</a>.<br>
<br>
That entity — the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names
and Numbers — has allocated domain names and the numerical
addresses to which they are attached since 1998. Ever
since, ICANN's work has been overseen by the Commerce
Department's National Telecommunications and Information
Administration.<br>
<br>
"We are not giving up our leadership role," Lawrence
Strickling, who heads the NTIA, told members of the House
Judiciary Committee. "We are stepping out of clerical
functions we currently perform."<br>
<br>
Shedding oversight of how ICANN distributes addresses is a
long-planned, logical next step, administration officials
say. They say the move would still leave the U.S. with a
voice on advisory committees and other entities that make
decisions about larger questions about Internet policies.<br>
<br>
The Obama administration and ICANN say decisions about who
would take the current U.S. oversight role will be made by
companies, engineers, nonprofit groups, governments and
other Internet users — the same way many decisions about
Internet policy are currently made.<br>
<br>
"Everyone is at the table with equal voice," ICANN's
president and CEO, Fadi Chehade, told the Judiciary panel.
"The model works, and it works very well."<br>
<br>
Critics say there is no way to know what new entity would
take the administration's role, or what other changes
might occur should the U.S. lose leverage with the domain
assigning corporation The U.S. government has had a series
of contracts with ICANN since 1998, with the current one
expiring in September 2015 — with two two-year renewals
possible.<br>
<br>
[snip]<br>
<br>
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