<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>+1</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>Nathalie </div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Avri Doria <avri@acm.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> discuss@1net.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, April 17, 2014 10:05 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [discuss] we need to fix what may be broken<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>Hi,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Well said George.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It has
taken me a while to undeerstand the implications of Bertrand de<br clear="none">la Chapelle model that ‘lets us "differentiate between governance of<br clear="none">the Internet and governance on the Internet.'<br clear="none"><br clear="none">While I think there are border areas where the differentiation will be<br clear="none">fuzzy, and there are interactions between 'governance of' and<br clear="none">'governance on', I think this is a very useful methodology to apply in<br clear="none">any analysis.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">avri<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yqt1128210177" id="yqtfd55961"><br clear="none">On 17-Apr-14 09:38, George Sadowsky wrote:<br clear="none">> Hi, Carlos,<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I think that we may be talking across each other. I am still sort of<br clear="none">> a techie, although my skills are more of the 20th century than of the<br clear="none">>
21st. But I ally myself with both the technical community and civil<br clear="none">> society; I’ve worked in both fields, and I see the merits of both.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I consider freedom of expression very important. I don’t argue for<br clear="none">> complete freedom of expression; neither do the Europeans, and the<br clear="none">> Americans do not permit you to yell “fire!” in a crowded theater.<br clear="none">> However, nearly complete freedom of expression, if aI can label it<br clear="none">> that, is a precious freedom, and I support it.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> In your example, of a blogger murdered by order of a politician, how<br clear="none">> would your stand on free expression be different if it were a<br clear="none">> newspaper reporter, murdered by a politician, for exactly the same<br clear="none">> content. I think that you would be
equally angry, and so would I.<br clear="none">> the point is that the Internet is not implicated in your example,<br clear="none">> just as the newspaper is not implicate in my rewrite of your<br clear="none">> example.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Bertrand de la Chapelle said it best at the NCUC meeting in<br clear="none">> Singapore. He said, ‘let’s differentiate between governance of the<br clear="none">> Internet and governance on the Internet." It’s my belief that the<br clear="none">> vast majority of the technical community is in signifiant agreement<br clear="none">> with most members of civil society with respect to issues regarding<br clear="none">> governance on the Internet. After all, we are all inhabitants of the<br clear="none">> planet, and we want common freedoms and liberties.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Where I think we cross paths is that the
technical community sees<br clear="none">> these concerns crossing over into governance of the Internet, hoping<br clear="none">> that we subject the governance to increased control of some sort,<br clear="none">> problems of society on the Internet will be ameliorated. If so, we<br clear="none">> should be equally concerned about governance of the newspaper<br clear="none">> industry, governance of the content of school textbooks, and<br clear="none">> governance of the industry that publishes books — clearly a dangerous<br clear="none">> medium of communication.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> We are concerned because we have something that works as a technical<br clear="none">> instrument to distribute information from anyone to anyone. Barring<br clear="none">> the interference of governments that are sovereign in their space<br clear="none">> (conveniently forgetting Ukraine for the moment), this
distributed<br clear="none">> architecture and the hundreds of thousands of technical people that<br clear="none">> support it operationally — in the small and in the large — has scaled<br clear="none">> massively and works as well or better than any other knowledge<br clear="none">> distribution channel that the world has ever seen. We do not want it<br clear="none">> compromised by having it managed by people who do not understand it,<br clear="none">> and we do not want it blamed for societal issues that mistakenly<br clear="none">> imply that the basic management of the Internet is culpable for the<br clear="none">> problems of society.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> The technical community is responsive to the needs of society.<br clear="none">> Improvements in research and education were one of the primary<br clear="none">> motivators to build and extend the network. The technical community<br
clear="none">> was in large part responsible for organizational innovations such as<br clear="none">> the meritocracy-based standards approach pioneered in the IETF, which<br clear="none">> has been extraordinarily successful. Members of the technical<br clear="none">> community are generally supportive of much of what representatives of<br clear="none">> civil society causes are espousing at Net Mundial. I believe that we<br clear="none">> are generally very much in favor of your calls for free expression<br clear="none">> and human rights; we would like to see those calls succeed. And, to<br clear="none">> the extent that they are consistent with the security, stability, and<br clear="none">> resiliency of the Internet, with your help we can improve the<br clear="none">> services that the Internet provides.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Bet, let’s not create, even in our minds, artificial
barriers to<br clear="none">> understanding, in both directions, even in our minds.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> George (speaking solely on my own behalf, as always in this<br clear="none">> discussion spar)<br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">discuss mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:discuss@1net.org" href="mailto:discuss@1net.org">discuss@1net.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>