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<p class="dd821e39-0f01-4804-8ead-5327a60ff7c9"><font style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Your capacity to twist the words of others and by doing so demean them is boundless.
<br>
-------------------------- <br>
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Device <br>
</font><br>
<br>
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<font style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""><b>From</b>: michael gurstein [mailto:gurstein@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent</b>: Sunday, April 20, 2014 02:59 AM<br>
<b>To</b>: 'Alejandro Pisanty' <apisanty@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Cc</b>: discuss@1net.org <discuss@1net.org> <br>
<b>Subject</b>: Re: [discuss] [governance] [ciresearchers] NETmundial documentsonline for comment
<br>
</font> <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sorry, Alejandro, I see that you are taking those comments personally which of course, was not my intention.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">BTW, when you say “</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">We're done here.”
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">Are you indicating that you and your colleagues “own” this discussion space …
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">Is this an extension of the earlier manifestation of 1net exclusion and ownership of the MS space by the favoured few?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">M</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:apisanty@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Avri Doria; discuss@1net.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [discuss] [governance] [ciresearchers] NETmundial documentsonline for comment<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Gurstein,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">very brief and quoting only one paragraph of your latest blog post (there's plenty more in there):<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">"<span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#FFFFB4"> the citizens of Less Developed Countries whose governments lack the knowledge and often the resources to act as effective stakeholders in MS processes; whose national Internet
corporations are either sub-units of global corporations or too weak to be effective in such environments; and whose Civil Society organizations have been captured by means of the cheap baubles of international travel, the flattery of “participation” in discussions
with Internet luminaries, along with the crumbs of localized organizational benefits; will (as with the disadvantaged populations in Developed Countries) be completely at the mercy of those in the Developed Countries and in those small segments of their own
countries"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">What detail is lacking? You can go on piling insult and disqualification. Nobody is purer than thee.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">Name names in this list. Your options are blacklist (call the names of the shills and the idiots) or whitelist (call the names of the pure.) </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">It is long ago, about a year and a half (pre-WCIT) that you stopped discussing ideas, speak not making actual proposals, and went on this till now unanswered-to and constantly
escalating attack. Veil lifted. Time over.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">We're done here.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#333333;background:#EEEEEE">Alejandro Pisanty</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 1:05 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Alejandro,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Inline…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:<a href="mailto:apisanty@gmail.com" target="_blank">apisanty@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 20, 2014 5:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Avri Doria; <a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [discuss] [governance] [ciresearchers] NETmundial documentsonline for comment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">there is a way and there is a fit. There is some pretty good reading about the fit between the participation of all stakeholders and democracy, some of it in these lists. (BTW if
participation is not included in your book on democracy, it must indeed be a bizarre book.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[MG>] tks, I’m quite familiar with the literature on participatory democracy having contributed
to it to a limited degree in an earlier life </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> and of course, participation
is a necessary even central element in democracy… but I should point out a “democratic” participation is one that is available and effective for the many and not simply the powerful, well-resourced and well-connected few as with MSism…</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Your writing fails to distinguish between people who do and who don't: agree or disagree with the NetMundial planned outcome paper and the history that got us there, follow or not
the Santa Fe paper you dislike, follow or not the Washington Consensus, believe their governments are democratic or not, and so on, for pages. In your writing everybody except pure and pristine you are either thieves or brainwashed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[MG>] interesting characterization of what I’ve written, but without specifics it is hard to
reply </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">That is consistent with identifying an epistemological barrier on your side which denies the great growth that developing and marginalized technical, academic and civil-society
participation in Internet, environment, and many other fields of global- and local-reach governance have achieved, and the struggles of these organizations within their countries against censorship, repression, bad laws, and for connectivity, access to knowledge,
freedom of speech and of association, training, and the sheer build-up of Internet connectivity and content. These communities and individuals are varied in political preference, profession, geography, ethnicity, age, and education and consider themselves
the richer for it. They have built a lot based on their participation which was, is and will continue to be denied by any other system and will resist attempts - including yours - to have their achievements and hopes taken away.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[MG>] wow did I do all that
</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">… again some specifics would be useful… having devoted most of my work
over the last 20 years or so to the grassroots use of ICTs and responding directly and on the ground in most of the areas you are pointing to with the notable exception of also wanting to see social justice alongside freedom of speech/assembly etc. as an outcome
of Internet access and use etc. etc. its rather hard to reconcile but anyway…</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As long as your writings continue to lump together everybody into categories of shills and idiots there can hardly be any point in further explanations directed to you when there
is so much more to achieve. It is fair to say that you have documented bias and disqualification enough.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[MG>] if you are saying that I think that those who support an uncritical approach to the application
of MSism to global (Internet) governance in quite inappropriate areas (as I’ve said in the earlier emails – beyond the technical and standards layers of the “onion skin model”); that this represents a serious rejection of what we know as democracy; that the
folks who take this position are acting as the shock troops for a neo-liberal economic and political agenda; and that they are acting in a way quite inconsistent with the traditional concerns of civil society for social justice as well as human rights… then
yes, guilty as charged.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">M</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Alejandro Pisanty<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 7:21 PM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That’s good Alejandro but it would also be good to see that stated front and centre for example in
the NetMundial documents where stakeholders/MSism is mentioned 46 times and democracy is not mentioned even once and as well in all the various documents presenting MSism as THE only appropriate model for global (Internet) governance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It would also I think be useful to have some clarity as to what exactly is meant by MSism as principle
or as model… the usage and definitions are all over the map… and of course, the possible relationship of MSism to democratic principles and practices is completely undeveloped in any useful way.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Rather than commissioning and publishing yet another “expert” panel’s paen to the wonders of MSism,
supporting a discussion on how the participation of those most closely impacted by decisions undertaken through and by democratic institutions in the area of Internet governance might most usefully contribute to those decisions, could be a truly valuable contribution
from ISOC (or even ICANN).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">M</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Alejandro Pisanty [mailto:<a href="mailto:apisanty@gmail.com" target="_blank">apisanty@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> michael gurstein<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Avri Doria; <a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [discuss] [governance] [ciresearchers] NETmundial documentsonline for comment</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Avri's statement is not "against democracy." <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">"Multistakeholderism" is not being used as an "ism", suggesting an ideology or a belief. It is shorthand for "participation of all stakeholders" and, depending on the case at hand,
advances, complements or blazes a trail for larger-scale democratic processes (which as has been discussed, do not have a unique form.)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The fallacy in your argument, I think, is called "false dilemma."<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Alejandro Pisanty<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 7:38 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>Do I need to say how utterly preposterous is the following.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>First we have the statement "some form of multistakeholderism is appropriate for any Internet governance issue"... err "some
<i>form</i> of multistakeholderim"... exactly how many "forms" are there and do they have different, species, families, genuses--or perhaps there are 98 or 106 or 118 as in Mendeleeyev’s periodic table, or perhaps there are infinite numbers as in the number
of the names of god or the number of angels dancing on the heads of pins…. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And then “any Internet governance issue”… is that any possible Internet governance issue, any practical Internet governance issue, any governance issue that our friends in the US State Department might want to attribute as “Internet governance” or….
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Then we have a totally new term--"uni-multistakeholder system"--one that I've never seen before and which evidently Mr. Google has never heard of either... no hits among the several billion websites. No definition just plunked in their to shore up a very
very leaking argument (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferent_and_epicycle" target="_blank">epicycling</a> anyone?).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And then we have “What is most problematic is the view that multistakeholderism only consists of one model” … problematic to who exactly? Evidently not to the proponents of MSism for whom a governance system that has been in evolution for 1000 years or so
and currently among other things is bestirring the energies and hopes of 1.3 or so billion people in India ,among a couple of billion other devotees elsewhere in the world, is something that can be casually discarded in favor of a will o’ the whisp which
evidently has as many forms as <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Rand" target="_blank">
Sally Rand</a> had bubbles.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And then we have this one… “Each issue has an appropriate form of the multistakeholder model, different sets of actors, roles and responsibilities”… each issue has its own private Multistakeholder model… hmmm… so how is that determined, who makes the choice,
who does the vetting, who gets to play at being a stakeholder … does all of this appear as by magic… Houdini as the guiding force of MSism conjuring up a new and of course “appropriate” form at will and on call…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And going on we have this “The difficulty is coming to consensus on the proper mix.” Yep, I’m sure given the infinite number of models and the equally infinite number of possible issues and the virtually infinite number of potential participants reaching
that hallowed ground, a… (pause for drum rolls) Multistakeholder consensus will very likely be difficult; unless of course, as would inevitably be the case, a small group of privileged insiders would get together and decide what the “consensus” will be and
then having announced this to the waiting and expectant multitudes go on to reap the benefits of their ever so pomo post-democratic form of decision making.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And then just in case someone has been able to follow the discussion we have the following caveat “Just wanted to make sure we knew that we did not have universal agreement on your statement.”… well dah, yah… I’m sure that at least one of the angels dancing
on the head of one of the infinite pins is almost certain to disagree and there tragically goes our “universal agreement”, sigh…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>But we go on… “I think that multistakeholderism, in its variety of expressions and modalities of participatory democracy, is the only way forward possible”.. and by this time I’m completely lost we have the infinite forms of MSism and now we have the “variety”
of expressions and modalities of “participatory democracy”… this is starting to sound like the Kabbalah evoking the infinite names of G@d and his infinite qualities each of which in turn has an infinite number of forms… are we getting close … is this finally
a way of understanding exactly what MSism might be.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And finally we have this one “Anything else leaves some relevant actors outside the solution and is fundamentally anti-democratic”… yes, I agree, anyone who disagrees with any of the above in all its clarity and precision is cast out into the darkest and
deepest circles of hades never again to have access to the shining light of this new, improved and wondrous form of “post-democracy”…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Well I guess it’s back to Golem worship for me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>M<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>] On Behalf Of Avri Doria<br>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:48 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank">discuss@1net.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] [ciresearchers] NETmundial documentsonline for comment<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> *From:*Ian Peter [<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> I agree with your point Michael. I am travelling now, but I think you <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> should make the point in NetMundial document somehow that extending <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> multistakeholderism to all aspects on governance “on the internet” <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> could be problematic and does not have universal agreement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Of course no point of view has universal agreement, no matter how small or large the group.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I beleive that some form of multistakeholderism is appropriate for any Internet governance issue. I argue that a uni-stakeholder system is _never_ appropriate for the Internet. Or anywhere else for that matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Though I would agree that extending any one system to the Internet is going to be problematic. What is most problematic is the view that multistakeholderism only consists of one model, or that any form of the model is the solution to all issues. Each issue
has an appropriate form of the multistakeholder model, different sets of actors, roles and responsibilities. The difficulty is coming to consensus on the proper mix.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Just wanted to make sure we knew that we did not have universal agreement on your statement. I may be alone, but I think that multistakeholderism, in its variety of expressions and modalities of participatory democracy, is the only way forward possible.
Anything else leaves some relevant actors outside the solution and is fundamentally anti-democratic.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>avri<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">discuss@1net.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
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Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
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<br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
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Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
Facultad de Química UNAM<br>
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD<br>
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475<br>
Blog: <a href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614" target="_blank">
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/apisanty" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, <a href="http://www.isoc.org" target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . <o:p></o:p></p>
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