<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Net neutrality is about nondiscriminatory access to content, applications and services. A bandwidth cap does not discriminate among content, applications and services. It is quintessentially neutral. It provides the end user with an incentive to conserve bandwidth, but it does not tell them whether to conserve by refraining from BitTorrent downloads or Netflix watching or email or whatever. You may think it is a bad idea on other grounds, or you may think it is a good idea. But there is no way that bandwidth caps are a NN issue.<br>
</blockquote><div> </div><div>+1 and it is on this note that i am yet to understand the practical implementation of how to discriminate content/application service from one customer to another (bearing in mind that the 2 customers are for instance from the same "network based ISP" and both paid for their required Internet network connection). <br>
<br>Maybe some of the views described by SM applies to me (considering my origin) :-)<br><br></div><div>Cheers!<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--MM<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Carlos Raúl G. [mailto:<a href="mailto:crg@isoc-cr.org">crg@isoc-cr.org</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 10:29 AM<br>
To: Carlos A. Afonso<br>
Cc: Milton L Mueller; Chip Sharp (chsharp); 1Net List<br>
Subject: Re: [discuss] African take on Net Neutrality<br>
<br>
Here we have it!<br>
<br>
Sorry Carlos A. I had not seen your response to Milton.<br>
<br>
Fully agree with your "transmission capacity" definition.<br>
<br>
On top, electric grids also make a difference between transmission and distribution because is the fine differences in bottlenecks at each level.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez<br>
<a href="tel:%2B506%208335%202487" value="+50683352487">+506 8335 2487</a><br>
Enviado desde mi iPhone<br>
<br>
> El 14/05/2014, a las 07:40, "Carlos A. Afonso" <<a href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca">ca@cafonso.ca</a>> escribió:<br>
><br>
> I would rephrase, Milton:<br>
><br>
> "Any definition of net neutrality which makes it impossible to charge<br>
> users who contract more data transmission capacity higher fees than<br>
> people who contract less data transmission capacity is a reduction to<br>
> the absurd of the whole idea. It's like saying a 3Gbps fiber link<br>
> should be leased for the same monthly rate as a T1."<br>
><br>
> I would drop the comparison with kWh, since it is a measure of energy<br>
> flow, not of capacity (or available power, if you will).<br>
><br>
> Contracts with data caps (equivalent to contracts with a cap on<br>
> accumulated energy usage, to use your comparison, in which the<br>
> electric company charges you more per additional kWh if you go beyond<br>
> a monthly<br>
> cap) exist for any capacity and we should strive to abolish data caps.<br>
><br>
> [] fraterno<br>
><br>
> --c.a.<br>
><br>
>> On 05/14/2014 10:12 AM, Milton L Mueller wrote:<br>
>> Any definition of net neutrality which makes it impossible to charge users who use more data higher fees than people who use less data is a reduction to the absurd of the whole idea. It's like saying a 3Gb fiber link should be leased for the same monthly rate as a T1, or that charging electrical power by the kwh is unfair.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>] On<br>
>> Behalf Of Jay Daley<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 9:01 PM<br>
>> To: Chip Sharp (chsharp)<br>
>> Cc: 1Net List<br>
>> Subject: Re: [discuss] African take on Net Neutrality<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Chris<br>
>><br>
>>> On 14/05/2014, at 12:52 pm, Chip Sharp (chsharp) <<a href="mailto:chsharp@cisco.com">chsharp@cisco.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Now is being proposed the idea that Net Neutrality includes business relationships that don't require direct manipulation of data flow in the network. Zero rating is one example of this, but not the only one.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Is this is really a Net Neutrality issue or is it an example of an innovative business offering?<br>
>><br>
>> In countries where data caps are common this is often seen as a net neutrality issue.<br>
>><br>
>> At a technical level the traffic is actually treated differently if the data cap is exceeded, when it will not be subject to the same sanctions applied to non-zero-rated traffic, which is commonly to rate limit or to block entirely.<br>
>><br>
>> regards<br>
>> Jay<br>
>><br>
>>><br>
>>> My view is that we still need flexibility to allow for innovation in business practices of ISPs *and* edge providers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Chip<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> On May 13, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen <<a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> This is an interesting read on network neutrality from an African internet perspective. I would summarise it as saying the principle is critical. How regulators apply it has to be sensitive to local contexts. The writer is Steve Song.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://manypossibilities.net/2014/05/net-neutrality-in-africa/" target="_blank">http://manypossibilities.net/2014/05/net-neutrality-in-africa/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Anriette<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>> anriette esterhuysen<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> executive director, association for progressive communications<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> po box 29755, melville 2109<br>
>>>> south africa<br>
>>>> tel/fax <a href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" value="+27117261692">+27 11 726 1692</a><br>
>>>><br>
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>>><br>
>>> ** I am employed by Cisco Systems, Inc, but these comments reflect<br>
>>> my own opinion and not any position of Cisco. **<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
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