<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;">(cc’s pruned)</span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>Michael -<div><br></div><div>The antecedent to “family” in my note was <font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"> "a global family of technical and operational folks who make the DNS name resolution system work.” Surely that does not need elaboration in this forum.</font></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;">“Cooperation” means aligning the operation of the large and globally distributed hierarchy of root and name servers with updates received from IANA. For years there has been speculation about “what would happen” if by some odd chance IANA, for whatever reason, published a change that a large fraction of the people involved in name resolution disagreed with. I won’t indulge in my own speculation except to comment that the system works as well as it does because of the network of trust established over many years between and among the individuals involved.</span></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><br></font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT">It is very clear from this forum and others of recent vintage that “best interests” is subject to varying definitions and interpretations. One of the latest IGF goals is to attempt to reduce code words like “best interests” to more substantive reality. I endorse that effort. In the context of my note, “best interests” meant as perceived by the name resolution family of individuals.</font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><br></font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT">- Mike</font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><br></font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><br></font></div><div><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT"><br></font><div><div>On Aug 31, 2014, at 9:52 AM, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Mike, perhaps you could go into more detail on this statement...<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><i>"As (it) is assuming that the greater “family” would cooperate with an IANA change they viewed as not in the best interests of the Internet."<o:p></o:p></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">For example giving some further definition of who/what is meant by the "<u>greater (Internet?) family</u>", "<u>cooperation" (or not?) with an IANA change</u>, and "<u>best interests of the Internet</u>".<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">M<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-----Original Message-----<br>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">discuss-bounces@1net.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:discuss-bounces@1net.org</a>] On Behalf Of Mike Roberts<br>Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 9:37 AM<br>To: Jordan Carter<br>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:isoc-advisory-council@elists.isoc.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">isoc-advisory-council@elists.isoc.org</a>; 1Net List;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ig@aptld.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ig@aptld.org</a>; Ianaxfer@Elists. Isoc. Org;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ccnso-igrg@icann.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ccnso-igrg@icann.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [discuss] Two accountability questions - help pls- Workshop 23 - ICANN accountability</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I agree with Bill’s comments.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I would also point out that focusing on IANA is like looking at an iceberg. IANA, meaning the functions its staff carry out, is part of a global family of technical and operational folks who make the DNS name resolution system work. Assuming that a change in the chain of command/accountability for IANA will solve some perceivecd problem or set of problems is exceedingly short sighted. As is assuming that the greater “family” would cooperate with an IANA change they viewed as not in the best interests of the Internet.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">- Mike<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Aug 31, 2014, at 8:00 AM, Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Dear all<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Apologies for cross-posting...<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I am seeking some community feedback as part of prepping for the<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> workshop on ICANN accountability scheduled for Wednesday 9am here at<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> #igf2014.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> The particular questions I have, two, are:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> 1. Is ICANN's accountability a subject for the whole Internet<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> community to resolve, or (as suggested by ICANN, in distinction from<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> the iana stewardship transition) an internal ICANN community matter?<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> 2. Can *internal* accountability arrangements, of whatever sort, ever<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> be adequate for an entity like ICANN that is intended (at least it<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> looks like that is ICANN's intention) to be responsible for the<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> stewardship of the iana functions?<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> My view is that for the first, the clear answer is the broader<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> community; for the second, most of the discussions in the ICANN<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> community to date have been focused on internal arrangements except<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> for the weird ban on discussion internal structural accountability<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> measures.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> I'd value any discussion on these to help inform the panel's work on Wednesday.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Thanks,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Jordan<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Ps - InternetNZ is the designated manager of the .nz ccTLD; it has a<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> wider cause (a better world through a better Internet (which is an<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> open and uncaptured Internet)) and so is in an interesting situation<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> straddling parts of the Internet's technical and civil society<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> communities.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> PPS - The session description is as follows:<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Discussion of how accountability goals are achieved at ICANN under its<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> multi-stakeholder governance processes. To whom is ICANN accountable<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> and what are the mechanisms for ensuring that accountability is<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> adequate? In what way do these mechanisms need strengthening or<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> further improvements, particularly in light of NTIA's announcement to<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> transition out its current role? How do checks and balances on power,<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> such as structural separation of key DNS operations encourage<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> accountability? How have ICANN's Affirmation of Commitments and the<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Accountability and Transparency Review Team fostered (or undermined)<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> accountability goals at ICANN? What lessens were learned from the AoC<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> and ATRT processes on achieving accountability under a<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> multi-stakeholder governance regime? What is the role of ICANN's<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Ombudsman Office in achieving accountability for the institution?<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> --<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Jordan Carter<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> Chief Executive, InternetNZ<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> +64 21 442 649<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/jordantcarter" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">twitter.com/jordantcarter</a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> 'Hope is the dream of a person awake' -- French proverb<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">> discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">discuss@1net.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</span></a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:discuss@1net.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">discuss@1net.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href="http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</span></a></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>