<div dir="ltr">i hope it is clear that CDNs, colocation, and even adjacencies with access ISPs reduces traffic on the Internet by placing content geographically closer to the recipients who are downloading or streaming. Google, like many other sources of content, tries to make the aggregate Internet more efficient by increasing connectivity to edge access providers and major backbone networks.<div><br></div><div>v</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 4:10 PM, Miguel Ignacio Estrada <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:miestrada@gmail.com" target="_blank">miestrada@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">You are right Gary, I used the word "installing" in the wrong way. What I was trying to say is that Google (youtube) is creating datacenters near different IXPs (ans maybe connecting them directly to those IXPs) in order to save traffic to their most demanded content.<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the clarification<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Gary W Kenward <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:garykenward@eastlink.ca" target="_blank">garykenward@eastlink.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><div>From a logical architecture perspective, the IAB guidelines would suggest that the answer to your question is no.</div><div><br></div><div>An IXP is basically a packet switch (or collection of switches) connecting two autonomous networks.</div><div><br></div><div>Given the size of Google server centres, it is possible that they are treated as autonomous domains and are directly connected to an IXP. In which case, they should be treated like any other autonomous network. </div><div><br></div><div>If Google were to receive special treatment, it would be in contradiction to the principle of net neutrality, would it not?</div><div><br></div><div>Truthfully, I do not really know - Google is a large and wealthy company with a pervasive Internet presence. Such forces of nature tend to bend people's perception of reality.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><span>_________</span><span style="font-size:13pt">_________</span><span style="font-size:13pt">_________</span><span style="font-size:13pt">_________</span><span style="font-size:13pt">__</span><span><div>Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.</div><div><br></div><div><div><span style="font-size:13pt;text-align:-webkit-auto;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:GillSans-Light">The information contained in this document is private and confidential. This document is not to</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13pt;text-align:-webkit-auto;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:GillSans-Light">be copied, printed or re-distributed without the explicit permission of the author.</span></div></div></span></div><div><div>On Mar 2, 2015, at 15:48, Miguel Ignacio Estrada <<a href="mailto:miestrada@gmail.com" target="_blank">miestrada@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div></div></div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Isn't this "buffering" what Akamai, Google and so do by installing their servers on the IXPs around the world and storing on them the top 20% content viewed by those IXPs users?</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Gary Kenward <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:garykenward@ieee.org" target="_blank">garykenward@ieee.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>The buffering referred to does not really exist within the Internet. There are buffers associated with packet queues. Packet queues are limited in size, and are generally avoided as they add to packet delay and delay variation.</div><div><br></div><div>Regardless, IAB guidelines for the Internet architecture place all applications outside the Internet. Technically, Netflix is not part of the Internet. Rather, it is an application that uses the Internet.</div><div><br></div><div>According to this architecture, if Netflix wishes to reduce delivery delays to a localized subscribers, they should establish data centres closer to those customers (where "close" is measured in terms of delay though the Internet).</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps.</div><div><div><div><br>On Mar 2, 2015, at 12:16, William Smith <<a href="mailto:wc.smith@me.com" target="_blank">wc.smith@me.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Take a look at <a href="http://named-data.net/consortium/" target="_blank">http://named-data.net/consortium/</a>.<div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Mar 2, 2015, at 8:02 AM, nathalie coupet <<a href="mailto:nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com" target="_blank">nathaliecoupet@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr"><span>According to Van Johansen (Slow-start algorythm), the Internet should change from a ''conversational" architecture with connections between two nodes at a time, to a content-based architecture that would use the memory stored in the infrastructure through leveraging the existing buffering occurring at each hop, in order to send content to a very great number of addresses at the same time. </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Thus, Netflix would be able to send its content to great number of households not from a single address point, but from everywhere to everywhere. </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Could someone explain in more detail exactly to what buffering he is referring to, and how it would affect Net Neutrality? </span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><br></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>Thanks, </span></div><div></div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div><div>Nathalie</div></div><br> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Gary Kenward <<a href="mailto:garykenward@ieee.org" target="_blank">garykenward@ieee.org</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Nick Ashton-Hart <<a href="mailto:nashton@consensus.pro" target="_blank">nashton@consensus.pro</a>> <br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> internetpolicy <<a href="mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org" target="_blank">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 2, 2015 10:19 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Internet Policy] Net Neutrality can't be defined neutrally<br> </font> </div> <div><br><div><div><div>Having worked with those telcos on Internet service models I can assure you that their goal is to maximize their return on investment. And their primary objective is to move up the food chain and become application service and content providers (e.g. Crave.tv).</div><div><br></div><div>To be clear, for me working with the telecom industry was not a generally satisfying experience. I still cannot get over the fact that we can deliver Mordecai on-demand to a large number of house-holds, not to mention pictures of cats, food,...while our first responders have to deal with 20+ year old communications technology.</div><div><br></div><div><br>Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.<div><br></div><div><div><span style="font-size:13pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:GillSans-Light">The information contained in this document is private and confidential. This document is not to</span></div><div><span style="font-size:13pt;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:GillSans-Light">be copied, printed or re-distributed without the explicit permission of the author.</span></div></div></div><div><br>On Mar 1, 2015, at 05:34, Nick Ashton-Hart <<a rel="nofollow">nashton@consensus.pro</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>The other thing that strikes me from the later part of this thread about business models is this:</span><br><span></span><br><span>To what extent would the large telcos who don't like the FCC's NN decision change their view if they weren't for-profit companies?</span><br><span></span><br><span>You would have to imagine that at least some of the very strong opposition from the Verizons and AT&Ts are because they want to maximise return, and charging services for priority is another way to maximise return. </span><br><span></span><br><span>On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:41, Miles Fidelman <<a rel="nofollow">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>> wrote:</span><br><span></span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>At least in the states, there are lots of examples of very well run municipal electric utilities (about 18% cheaper on average, too), and that's who's branching into telecom - they need the data nets for SCADA and metering and such, and once you start putting people on poles to run wires.... About the only places you can get gigE FTTH in the states, are from a small number of munis. Munis are also a very far cry from utilities run by a national government.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The problem with telecom, as with most utilities, comes down to right-of-ways -- there's a real first-mover advantage, after you've got pole space and buildout, it's very hard for competition to move in.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Gary W Kenward wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>I agree that monopolies are bad, for all market sectors.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>However, I still remember how bad the state run telephone services were in Canada and Europe, and I haven’t seen anything that would suggest today’s governments would do any better in providing packet carrier services, particularly at the municipal level.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The right approach is to begin with a revitalization of fair competition laws.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>G</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>*/</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>/*</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS DOCUMENT IS PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT TO BE COPIED, PRINTED OR REDISTRIBUTED WITHOUT PERMISSION OF ADROIT TECHNOLOGIC.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 2015.02.28, at 09:30, Miles Fidelman <<a rel="nofollow">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a><<a rel="nofollow">mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>It's called municipal broadband.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Seriously - private, monoploy (or duopoly) utilities is just a bad model.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Miles Fidelman</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>It seems to me there's a good argument for cooperative and not-for-profit models for ISPs.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 28 Feb 2015, at 13:54, Veni Markovski <<a rel="nofollow">veni@veni.com</a> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:veni@veni.com</a>> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:veni@veni.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>By the way , when my company was investing in development and building our own network in Bulgaria, the price of fiber and cat-5 cables was very high. Yet we did it, and provided affordable internet for all. But we didn't have shareholders to ask us to cut expenses and increase profits...</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Saturday, February 28, 2015, ac5jw . <<a rel="nofollow">ac5jw.kb5fck@gmail.com</a><<a rel="nofollow">mailto:ac5jw.kb5fck@gmail.com</a>> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:ac5jw.kb5fck@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> This reminds me of the earlier times when we had that issue of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> who paid for telephone calls.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> The conflict was that people who received telephone calls on</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> their mobile devices would get billed and charged for minutes and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> for money when they received calls that they were unable to give</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> informed consent to in advance.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> The discussion of late on paying for services seems to follow</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> these lines.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I am sure that the taxpayers are funding for some basic</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> telecommunications services to include Internet and that the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> funding goes directly to telecommunications providers to maintain</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> a common system. At a minimum, all American taxpayers already</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> funding for the federal users of the Internet.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I do not see having users on the Internet as a problem, because</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> the Internet serves them. I do have a problem with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> double-dipping, where the man in the middle (providing the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> communications) chooses to charge both entities higher and higher</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> rates while selling access to a common system of communication.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I am concerned that at some point, the costs of provisioning and</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> building the system are amortized away and the resulting high</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> charges would just line the pockets of investors, service</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> providers, and speculators without going to improve the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> infrastructure for everyone, to include new users coming online.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I believe that net neutrality should consider the issue of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> infrastructure delay and retardation because it ultimately</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> disserves the purpose of net neutrality.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> If the infrastructure is indeed improved upon, meaning more</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> bandwidth comes available and more users can access it, then the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> service providers will continue to receive some taxpayer funding</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> and even a larger customer base for newly established private</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> accounts on the improved infrastructure. This might even be</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> considered a win-win opportunity for all to benefit.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Regards.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Amateur Earth Station AC5JW <<a rel="nofollow">http://www.qsl.net/ac5jw/</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 7:05 AM, Miles</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Fidelman<<a rel="nofollow">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>>>wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Lack of competition, action by the incumbents to block new</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> competition, and action by the incumbents to favor their own</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> content services.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Miles Fidelman</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Richard Hill wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Indeed, as I understand it, the FCC has intervened in the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> US because of the lack of competition in that country.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Best,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Richard</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> *From:*InternetPolicy</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> [<a rel="nofollow">mailto:internetpolicy-bounces@elists.isoc.org</a>] *On</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Behalf Of *Veni Markovski</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> *Sent:* Saturday, February 28, 2015 12:41</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> *To:* Patrik Fältström</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> *Cc:*<a rel="nofollow">internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:internetpolicy@elists.isoc.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> *Subject:* Re: [Internet Policy] Net Neutrality can't be</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> defined neutrally</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> +1, as an ISP, we always wanted to build and offer more</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> bandwidth - not last reason was because our competitors</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> were doing the same. In the USA there's practically no</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> real competition - you choose between the cable company</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> (formerly tv), and the phone company (usually one). When</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I moved there, I wanted to continue with my business, but</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> turned out regulations are made in such a way that they</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> don't allow competition. As a matter of fact, this past</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> week I saw a message that the government would allow the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> creation of municipal networks, and the telcos protest as</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> this will be unfair competition...</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> On Saturday, February 28, 2015, Patrik Fältström</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <<a rel="nofollow">paf@frobbit.se</a> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:paf@frobbit.se</a>><<a rel="nofollow">mailto:paf@frobbit.se</a>>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 28 feb 2015, at 09:59, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <<a rel="nofollow">ocl@gih.com</a> <<a rel="nofollow">mailto:ocl@gih.com</a>><javascript:;>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Is this really what happens? Is the ball solely in the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> ISP court? I'd</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>tend to think the responsibility is shared these days.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> The explosion of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>video services has shown an incredible growth in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> traffic which, if I was</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>an ISP, I'd find very difficult to follow.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Why? A user can not use more than what the ISP connect</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> them with. If you get 1Mbps from your ISP you can not use</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> more than 1Mbps, right?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Look at Netflix for example -</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>accounting for 35% of all US Internet traffic during</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> peak periods?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">http://thenextweb.com/apps/2014/11/21/netflix-now-accounts-35-overall-us-internet-traffic/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Does it pay fairly for all of this traffic?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Sure, for an ISP an IP packet is an IP packet. Customers</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> want to use more of them so the ISP can sell more of them.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Once again, the issue you point at is that users get</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 100Mbps (for example) and earlier used 1Mbps but now uses</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> 10Mbps. This implies the traffic in the network have</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> increased with a multiplier of 10 but the ISP do not get</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> more money. Simply because what the user uses is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> unexpected but still "within" the product that the ISP</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> actually have sold.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Note: I am not blaming the ISP for doing the wrong thing.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> I am just explaining what I see the issue is.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> If an ISP has sold "up to 100Mbps" and users earlier did</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> use 1Mbps, but now 10Mbps, why would the ISP get money</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> from Netflix because the 9Mbps unexpected traffic is to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Netflix? Netflix already pays for the 9Mbps to their data</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> centers.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Patrik</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> --</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Best,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Veni</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">http://veni.com</a> <<a rel="nofollow">http://veni.com/</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://facebook.com/venimarkovski</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/veni</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> ***</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> The opinions expressed above</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> are those of the author, not of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> any organizations, associated</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> with or related to him in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> any given way.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> ***</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> == Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes are</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> caused by the touchscreen keyboard. Also, that's the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> reason for using short words and phrases.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> _______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> menu.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> --</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> _______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>--</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Best,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Veni</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">http://veni.com</a> <<a rel="nofollow">http://veni.com/</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://facebook.com/venimarkovski</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/veni</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>***</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The opinions expressed above</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>are those of the author, not of</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>any organizations, associated</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>with or related to him in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>any given way.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>***</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>== Sent from my phone, so any spelling mistakes are caused by the touchscreen keyboard. Also, that's the reason for using short words and phrases.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br><span><a rel="nofollow">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span></div></blockquote></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,<br>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:<br><a>https://portal.isoc.org/</a><br>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.<br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div>_______________________________________________<br>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,<br>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:<br><a href="https://portal.isoc.org/" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org/</a><br>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,</span><br><span>please log into the ISOC Member Portal:</span><br><span><a href="https://portal.isoc.org/" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org/</a></span><br><span>Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.</span></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,<br>
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:<br>
<a href="https://portal.isoc.org/" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org/</a><br>
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><font>Nacho Estrada | <a href="http://twitter.com/acmuzic" target="_blank">@acmuzic</a></font></div></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><font>Nacho Estrada | <a href="http://twitter.com/acmuzic" target="_blank">@acmuzic</a></font></div></div>
</font></span></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
To manage your ISOC subscriptions or unsubscribe,<br>
please log into the ISOC Member Portal:<br>
<a href="https://portal.isoc.org/" target="_blank">https://portal.isoc.org/</a><br>
Then choose Interests & Subscriptions from the My Account menu.<br></blockquote></div><br></div>