[discuss] Patriot Act & Routing + TPIG question

Nick Ashton-Hart nashton at ccianet.org
Tue Jan 7 07:43:09 UTC 2014

+1 Greg

I would add: there is a mistaken idea that traffic has to transit the USA in order for it to be accessible to the NSA. As news reports have made clear, this is not the case: there are listening stations in something like 80 countries, and the 5-Eyes countries are clearly providing data to one another of the nature referenced.

Creating rules that route traffic around entire countries is a truly terrible idea - for everyone. I leave it to some of the more technically expert to say why if they want (and it might do some of the non-technical on this list a service if someone does).

"Shatan, Gregory S." <GShatan at ReedSmith.com> wrote:
>I'm no fan of the Patriot Act, but I don't believe it states anything
>like this.  Can you provide some concrete, specific citations, examples
>and discussion of this alleged power in the Patriot Act and in
>practice?  As stated, the scenario you describe does not sound correct.
>Also, I'm not familiar with the word "intrade" and an Internet search
>reveals nothing on point.  Can you provide the correct word or concept
>you are trying to express?  And what is the USCC?  I am not familiar
>with that either.  (US Chamber of Commerce?  Seems unlikely.)  And
>While the Snowden leaks have raised many significant concerns, they
>have also spawned some rather fantastical claims that are essentially
>"spy fiction."  I'd like some more meat on the bone here, so we don't
>go off chasing ghosts.
>Greg Shatan
>(As always, my posts/opinions are my own)
>-----Original Message-----
>From: discuss-bounces at 1net.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org] On
>Behalf Of Michel Gauthier
>Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 6:29 PM
>To: discuss at 1net.org
>Subject: [discuss] Patriot Act & Routing + TPIG question
>Since internet users are not represented, here are two questions I have
>been asked to ask:
>1. If an e-mail transits through the USA, it seems that Patriot Act
>states that an American Juge can summon the author and ask the CIA to
>"intrade" him/her to that end.  Since we know that the USCC/NSA has the
>capacity to read transiting e-mails. could the IETF
>- either devise a solution for the users to be sure that tjeir
>datagrams will not go across the US or any other country which might
>have similar laws,
>- or - if this is not possible - to add to the packet a kind of "legal
>embargo" making it illegal to use the content of the datagram against
>its author.
>2. through which channel such user needs should be best introduced to
>be seriously considered and effectively addressed by the technical and
>political Internet Governance?
>discuss mailing list
>discuss at 1net.org
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