[discuss] Patriot Act & Routing + TPIG question

Tue Jan 7 10:46:26 UTC 2014

Please note that while Snowden has been headlines on these issues, pre-populating visa information electronically is not unique to the US nor is the ability to or actual fact of intelligence services intercepting electronic communications. These are global issues in scope and application.  This goes back to the conversation that Nick and Brian were engaged in previously of what makes sense to discuss in relation to IG.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 7, 2014, at 2:50 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Citizens from the developing world are also prone to this process.
> 
> One should not forget that the US authorities do have a visa security
> clearance process for developing countries. Lets say that if someone
> was required to travel to the US from a developing country that does
> not have visa or entry upon arrival would need to apply online and
> will be compelled to give their data in order to print the visa
> application form for printing out the application form and getting an
> interview time spot. Then once they are interviewed, their data is
> checked through a number of online and offline sources. So background
> checks and online/offline activity data is widely collected across the
> world and its not just within the US.
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart <nashton at ccianet.org> wrote:
>> +1 Greg
>> 
>> I would add: there is a mistaken idea that traffic has to transit the USA in
>> order for it to be accessible to the NSA. As news reports have made clear,
>> this is not the case: there are listening stations in something like 80
>> countries, and the 5-Eyes countries are clearly providing data to one
>> another of the nature referenced.
>> 
>> Creating rules that route traffic around entire countries is a truly
>> terrible idea - for everyone. I leave it to some of the more technically
>> expert to say why if they want (and it might do some of the non-technical on
>> this list a service if someone does).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "Shatan, Gregory S." <GShatan at ReedSmith.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm no fan of the Patriot Act, but I don't believe it states anything like
>>> this.  Can you provide some concrete, specific citations, examples and
>>> discussion of this alleged power in the Patriot Act and in practice?  As
>>> stated, the scenario you describe does not sound correct.   Also, I'm not
>>> familiar with the word "intrade" and an Internet search reveals nothing on
>>> point.  Can you provide the correct word or concept you are trying to
>>> express?  And what is the USCC?  I am not familiar with that either.  (US
>>> Chamber of Commerce?  Seems unlikely.)  And TPIG?
>>> 
>>> While the Snowden leaks have raised many significant concerns, they have
>>> also spawned some rather fantastical claims that are essentially "spy
>>> fiction."  I'd like some more meat on the bone here, so we don't go off
>>> chasing ghosts.
>>> 
>>> Greg Shatan
>>> (As always, my posts/opinions are my own)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: discuss-bounces at 1net.org
>>> [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org] On Behalf Of Michel Gauthier
>>> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 6:29 PM
>>> To: discuss at 1net.org
>>> Subject: [discuss] Patriot Act & Routing + TPIG question
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Since internet users are not represented, here are two questions I have
>>> been asked to ask:
>>> 
>>> 1. If an e-mail transits through the USA, it seems that Patriot Act states
>>> that an American Juge can summon the author and ask the CIA to "intrade"
>>> him/her to that end.  Since we know that the USCC/NSA has the capacity to
>>> read transiting e-mails. could the IETF
>>> 
>>> - either devise a solution for the users to be sure that tjeir datagrams
>>> will not go across the US or any other country which might have similar
>>> laws,
>>> 
>>> - or - if this is not possible - to add to the packet a kind of "legal
>>> embargo" making it illegal to use the content of the datagram against its
>>> author.
>>> 
>>> 2. through which channel such user needs should be best introduced to be
>>> seriously considered and effectively addressed by the technical and
>>> political Internet Governance?
>>> 
>>> MG
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards.
> --------------------------
> Fouad Bajwa
> ICT4D and Internet Governance Advisor
> My Blog: Internet's Governance: http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/
> Follow my Tweets: http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa
> 
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