[discuss] Who will be in Brazil

Wed Jan 8 09:17:31 UTC 2014

Hi,

Remote participation is good, remote observation is bad, but the best
secnario is to give people the option to go there and be in the room if
they wish to. Any kind of remote involvement can miss things, due to a
number of reasons.

What about the conversations that go on when the camera's and microphones
are turned off?

What I'm saying is give people the choice. If it is dictated that the
majority of stakeholders are not allowed to be at the meeting, then there
will never be acceptance of the validity of what comes from this meeting.

You can dress up remote participation however you wish, and say in
encompasses all, but if remote participation were really that inclusive
then the meeting itself could be done remotely and there would be no need
for the self ordained "important people" to all sit in the same room.

Power should not be given to the few, when it comes to governing something
as broad as the Internet.

J

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 14:16:40 -0600
> From: Virginia Paque <virginiap at diplomacy.edu>
> To: Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org>
> Cc: "discuss at 1net.org" <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] Who will be in Brazil
> Message-ID:
>         <CAHXEJG2y=
> GQ1xgVZ5VJhTTDyDDaAOruiufVy_hdS9Os5gbFtYQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Right you are, Robert: no doubt about it, we are asking for remote
> participation, not remote observation.
>
> Guidelines and principles are available, but I think this is probably a
> topic for a sub-group discussion. Let us know if you would like to join the
> implementation effort. Either way, I am sure the whole IG community, not
> just CS, appreciates your support.
> Cheers, gp
>
> Ginger (Virginia) Paque
> IG Programmes, DiploFoundation
>
> *The latest from Diplo...* *Upcoming online courses in Internet governance:
> Master in Contemporary Diplomacy with Internet Governance specialisation,
> Critical Internet Resources and Infrastructure, ICT Policy and Strategic
> Planning, and Privacy and Personal Data Protection. Read more and apply
> at http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses <http://www.diplomacy.edu/courses>*
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Robert Guerra <rguerra at privaterra.org
> >wrote:
>
> > In regards to remote participation, careful planning and considerable
> > technical expertise is required to make sure a  high quality internet
> > connection is available not only to those physically attending the
> meeting,
> > but also those who will do so remotely.  A technical briefing  from the
> > organizing committee on this issue would be most welcome.
> >
> > That being said, there are different types of remote participation -
> shall
> > we spec it out?
> >
> > From my perspective,  One thing is having remote access to the event,
> > where we can hear the conversation.  Another, far more complex  and
> > desirable option would be to get a commitment from the organizers of the
> > event to facilitate effective remote engagement. The later allows for
> > remote attendees to not just hear the speakers but also participate in
> the
> > considerable number of side events and outside the meeting room
> discussions
> > that are quite common at ICANN and IG related meetings.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Totally agreed, Alejandro.
> >> Best!
> >> M
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Marilia,
> >>>
> >>> I share Ginger's commitment to remote partifcipation as much as anyone
> >>> else. It goes way beyond the technical facilities (which of course
> must be
> >>> open, as symmetric as possible, scalable and resilient.) If the
> >>> infrastructure is there, remote participation still depends on someone
> in
> >>> the physical room banging her fist on the table and making sure remote
> >>> participants are heard and interacted with effectively, not as
> "chatter."
> >>>
> >>> Making RP dependent on hubs would be a design fault; facilitating them
> >>> is different. Everyone must have an equal voice, physically present or
> not.
> >>>
> >>> Yours,
> >>>
> >>> Alejandro Pisanty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Marilia Maciel <
> mariliamaciel at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello Alejandro,
> >>>>
> >>>> Remote participation has natural limitations. One of them is time zone
> >>>> differences. Somewhere people will have to sacrifice their sleeping
> hours,
> >>>> or resort to the recorded sessions and transcripts. But this does not
> make
> >>>> RP less important, especially in contexts in which on-site attendance
> is
> >>>> limited, which is the present case. Webcast and RP are transparency
> and
> >>>> openness features that have been advocated by many people in our
> community
> >>>> until they were seen as "integral part" of the IG processes. Today it
> is
> >>>> natural and expected that they will be available. This is something we
> >>>> conquered and should value.
> >>>>
> >>>> I did not quite understand your argument about a
> centralist/corporatist
> >>>> thinking. Of course, people would be able to connect individually
> from home
> >>>> too, but they would also have the option to organize hubs and start a
> local
> >>>> discussion with peers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having worked with Ginger for years, I totally second your comments
> >>>> about her and would be happy to see her on the lead of any RP
> initiative.
> >>>>
> >>>> M
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Marilia,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> hubs are nice but experience has proven that they only work in
> >>>>> specific circumstances, one of which depends on timezones. Remember
> the
> >>>>> "pajama parties" when the timezone difference was around 8 hours to
> North
> >>>>> America. There has to be a natural scaling factor. Otherwise
> depending on
> >>>>> hubs is one more manifestation of centralistic/corporatist thinking.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ginger Paque has a much better perspective on remote participation
> >>>>> than most people I know and if a working group is formed for this
> purpose
> >>>>> she would be the first person I'd recommend to form part of it and
> lead it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yours,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alejandro Pisanty
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Marilia Maciel <
> >>>>> mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The meeting should definitely have webcast, given the fact that on
> >>>>>> site participation will be limited. It should not be forgotten that
> the IGF
> >>>>>> 2007 in Brazil triggered a push for remote participation. Some ideas
> >>>>>> ventilated in Rio on that occasion served as inspiration to the
> development
> >>>>>> of remote participation in the IGF, which ultimately led to the
> >>>>>> organization of IGF hubs, a successful model of engagement. RP was
> >>>>>> considered an integral part of the IGF and is extensively used in
> other
> >>>>>> organizations, such as ICANN and ITU. The conference in Brazil
> should live
> >>>>>> up to those experiences.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Practically, technical expertise from ICANN could be coupled with
> the
> >>>>>> IGF model of RP, based on hubs. People gathered in the hubs could
> follow
> >>>>>> the webcast from Rio and also discuss the topics on the agenda from
> their
> >>>>>> own perspective. Discussions carried out in the hubs could be
> summarized
> >>>>>> and documented, gathered after the conference, and should be part
> of the
> >>>>>> documental history of the event. These documents could provide us
> all with
> >>>>>> additional ideas on how to move discussions forward after Rio.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ginger Paque, from Diplo, has sent a message to some folks offering
> >>>>>> the LOG assistance with that. Diplo has extensive experience with
> RP and
> >>>>>> could definitely help to find a model of integrating RP while also
> taking
> >>>>>> into consideration that the meeting should have a manageable size.
> I also
> >>>>>> volunteer to help, as a former member of the IGF Remote
> Participation
> >>>>>> Working Group. I am sure others would be interested to make it
> happen as
> >>>>>> well.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best
> >>>>>> Mar?lia
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Roland Perry <
> >>>>>> roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In message <CAH5D2GHdvZVg66HBBS5eLtWi7+0-
> >>>>>>> +JgaWJSgpSZ3ok2+3eT-pA at mail.gmail.com>, at 11:12:35 on Thu, 2 Jan
> >>>>>>> 2014, Jerry Blimo <jerryblimo at gmail.com> writes
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can anyone clearly and concisely state who is going to be at the
> >>>>>>>> meeting in Brazil? Not just who the 20-odd people making the
> decisions will
> >>>>>>>> be, but who else can go and participate/observe
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No-one seems to have replied, so perhaps I can make an intervention
> >>>>>>> along the lines of: "it's a long way to go to find the meeting
> room is too
> >>>>>>> small to accommodate observers, but webcasting the entire thing is
> such an
> >>>>>>> obvious thing to do, I'd be surprised if the organisers have
> overlooked it".
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Roland Perry
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>> discuss at 1net.org
> >>>>>>> http://1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> *Mar?lia Maciel*
> >>>>>> Pesquisadora Gestora
> >>>>>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Researcher and Coordinator
> >>>>>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
> >>>>>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> DiploFoundation associate
> >>>>>> www.diplomacy.edu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> discuss mailing list
> >>>>>> discuss at 1net.org
> >>>>>> http://1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> >>>>> Facultad de Qu?mica UNAM
> >>>>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >>>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >>>>> +525541444475 DESDE M?XICO SMS +525541444475
> >>>>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> >>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> >>>>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> >>>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> >>>>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> *Mar?lia Maciel*
> >>>> Pesquisadora Gestora
> >>>> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
> >>>>
> >>>> Researcher and Coordinator
> >>>> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
> >>>> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
> >>>>
> >>>> DiploFoundation associate
> >>>> www.diplomacy.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> >>> Facultad de Qu?mica UNAM
> >>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >>> +525541444475 DESDE M?XICO SMS +525541444475
> >>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> >>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> >>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> >>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> >>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> >>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> >>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Mar?lia Maciel*
> >> Pesquisadora Gestora
> >> Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade - FGV Direito Rio
> >>
> >> Researcher and Coordinator
> >> Center for Technology & Society - FGV Law School
> >> http://direitorio.fgv.br/cts
> >>
> >> DiploFoundation associate
> >> www.diplomacy.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> discuss mailing list
> >> discuss at 1net.org
> >> http://1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > discuss mailing list
> > discuss at 1net.org
> > http://1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140107/4c3b2cd5/attachment.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss at 1net.org
> http://1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> End of discuss Digest, Vol 2, Issue 89
> **************************************
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140108/97872c74/attachment-0001.html>