[discuss] Bad Behaviour

michael gurstein gurstein at gmail.com
Thu Jan 9 05:15:10 UTC 2014

All of this cluck, cluck, clucking about "bad behavior" by some folks whose
truly atrocious behavior effectively shut down the IGC list and may have
destroyed it forever is a source of some shall we say, "irony...


I was at the famous Bali meeting and I thought that Parminder's behaviour
was at a couple of points inappropriate--provoked certainly, but
inappropriate; perhaps reflecting certain cultural misunderstandings or
whatever, but yes, inappropriate and I told him so... 


Whether it warrants this kind of public vilification and what appears to be
a desire for permanent exile (and the, dare I say, quite evidently political
motivations that are prompting this .... I leave to various people's


In normal circumstances I would suggest that one party offers an apology,
the other party accepts, they kiss and make up (whoops perhaps not so
appropriate in this circumstance... and we all go on our way...


But let's talk about some really "bad behavior" and moreover behavior that
has serious consequences much beyond a couple of momentary lapses...


We have a self-selected group, purportedly representing "Civil Society" (the
Best bits Coordinating Committee); being self-appointed to an, in turn,
self-selected group which purports to also represent Civil Society but in
some vaguer larger sense (the Civil Society Coordinating Committee-CS:CC);
and then further self-selecting themselves or their designates to represent
"civil society" on the Coordinating Group of further vague and extremely
shadowy and so far with no provenance or transparency -- the Inet group.  


And then to pile on top of this we have authorities in Brazil (again
extremely vague as to who exactly is involved) designating this shadowy Inet
group to be the sole interface for all of the non-governmental sectors to be
involved in what has been purported to be a Summit to discuss global
Internet Policies and Principles... 


And further we have this CS: CC going through an internal process among its
self-appointed poobahs of horse-trading and other processes without apparent
legitimacy or accountability and transparency (only by happy accident) to
identify nominees for some elements of this self-same "Summit/err...


(I may have missed an illegitimacy or unaccountability there somewhere but
you get my drift...


Now, the community of which I am a part has been looking to have a role in
these discussions but what I see is a wall of illegitimacies and
exclusionary behaviours which at their base and up and down the line are
quite evidently politically motivated i.e. meant to close off debate; to
limit issues and options; to exclude divergent voices; to ensure the
ultimate adoption of a now-(post-Snowden) discredited and illegitimate,
status quo consensus concerning the principle, policies and practices of
global Internet Governance...


To say that I'm disappointed is hardly sufficient... To say that all this is
starting to look (err... smell) like the World Economic Forum and it's pay
for play approach to Global Governance is I think hardly hyperbole.


"So what does a po' boy do, but play in a... whoops wrong song, but right


Maybe we'll just have to call our own meeting -- call it the World Internet
Forum -- and see who might show up to have a real discussion on the real
issues concerning the Internet in current society and towards an Internet
Empowerment%2C+and+Justice+for+All>  for the Common Good... 




-----Original Message-----
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of McTim
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 11:01 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Daniel Pimienta
Subject: Re: [governance] Nomination of Parminder


On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Daniel Pimienta <
<mailto:pimienta at funredes.org> pimienta at funredes.org> wrote:

> This is getting quite personal now... Dont you think it is too much so?

> From Deirdre's report I get that neither Suresh nor Mc Tim were 

> present in that event, so why are they reporting about it?


Speaking for myself, I am not "reporting" merely reminding folk that it is
an unresolved issue for the IGC.



> When I read:


>> He was then physically aggressive/threatening towards me (no contact, 

>> but i felt physically threatened).


> I must say that I totally trust this testimony: what people feels is 

> an objective part of their own realm although it could be seen 

> subjective from the outside.


> However.


> Just a highly probable hypothesis to try to put some calming to this 

> personal situation.

> Cultures does matters. Difference of cultures makes a lot of


Does your hypothesis explain why folks from other parts of the world were so
uncomfortable they also left?




> I spent 2 years in assignment in the US back in 1984 (in the deep 

> South), coming from my mediterranean culture.

> Every time I was getting anger (and in my culture we do not repress 

> this state of mind, we just express our anger) I realized that some 

> people around me felt physically threaten (in spite the fact I have 

> never rised the hand to anybody and I am totally uncapable of any 

> physical agression). It really impressed me a lot and obliged me, 

> since i was living there, to try to adapt and change somehow behavior. 

> I am not familiar with Indian culture but I wonder if we are not 

> facing the same type of situation and my guess is that it is highly


> I do recommand the reading of US citizen author Edward T. Hall's "The 

> hidden dimension" who brightly explained how cultural chocks create 

> strange situatrons... and to cool down.


> Conclusive question : are we supposed, on the top of being fluent in 

> English, to embrace US culture in order to be allowed to participate 

> in an IGF event?




no, you just have to have a sense of decency.







"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel


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