[discuss] surveillance governance, was Re: [governance] NTIA statement
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Tue Mar 18 06:32:54 UTC 2014
On Monday 17 March 2014 11:07 AM, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
> Parminder,
>
> I for one - and for once - agree with you on one point: no discussion
> yet of how surveillance should be governed.
Alejandro, Thanks for this rare agreement :)
More seriously, on your below exhortation to talk if you want to talk...
I have my views on how the surveillance issue may be addressed, and I
dont hesitate to state them. However, talking directly about possible
solutions is not the stage where we necessarily are at present. Although
as said I am happy to do that discussion.. The stage is, how such new
Internet age pressing public policy issues of a necessary global nature
could be routinely addressed. For this reason, NetMundial's focus is on
institutional development and broader principles, as the first stage. I
am just following that logic which makes sense to me.
More and more severe global public policy issues of such kind will keep
rolling in, as the Internet take over our social lives, and it is not
the best thing to always begin to form a reaction after the damage is
done, like we are doing with regard to Snowden revelations. Such is not
the appropriate way to deal with pressing common global issues. To do so
is political abdication, and we as global political actors should take
our responsibility seriously
In the circumstances, we need a standing global mechanism where such
discussions of Internet related social issues (the top layer in Vint
Cerf's paper) could take place, and appropriate measures begun to be
shaped; which would of course eventually involve a lot of different
actors . The biggest existing global Internet governance issue or
problem is the absence of any such standing global forum or mechanism.
Moving towards NetMundial, we first of all need this discussion to take
place.
It is like some major epidemics are brewing and we do not have a health
department to look into the situation from a larger public interest
viewpoint, do studies and analysis, mobilise actors and resources, and
take the necessary public action.... This is the nature of the problem.
Accordingly, the key questions are
(1) Do you think a standing global mechanism is required to discuss and
take necessary public action regarding the 'social layer' or public
policy aspect of global governance of the Internet? Explain your yes or no.
(2) In case the answer to above is yes, what should be the nature of
such standing mechanism, what should be its mandate and role, how should
it be constituted, and so on.
I am all looking for breakthroughs. Lets work together on it.
regards
parminder
>
> Time to come up with an agenda for that discussion, at least, and, it
> seems, leaving ICANN, IANA and all that parasitary stuff to a side.
>
> Now, as The Ugly said, "if you're going to talk, talk, if you're going
> to shoot, shoot." Let's see the breakthrough happen.
>
> What are the achievable rules, norms, agreements and mechanisms that
> can shape the practice and evolution of governmental surveillance of
> communications?
>
> (Do note that I am forking the thread by a change in the "subject"
> line, in line with what Greg Shatan, Nick Ashton-Hart and George
> Sadowsky have proposed a couple of times.)
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:16 PM, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>> wrote:
>
>
> On Sunday 16 March 2014 09:51 PM, Victor Ndonnang wrote:
>
> +1 Adiel.
> Surveillance and intelligence agencies was there before the
> Internet. Even
> if the Internet has a role in the mass surveillance...USG/NTIA
> intent to
> transfer IANA and root zone management related to the global
> independent
> Multistakeholder entity is not a response to the mass
> surveillance issue.
>
>
> Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not constitute
> any real response to mass surveillance problem. And since
> NetMundial came out of a series of events directly connected to
> the mass surveillance problem, and which is the main reason the
> 'global community' invested into it, it is only fair to the people
> across the world that we have
>
> 1. discussions on this issues, and others related to larger
> international public policy issues pertaining to the Internet , and
> 2. come up with proposals regarding these issues.
>
> I have seen almost nil work on this list in this regard. ICANN
> oversight issue should not be allowed to overshadow these much
> more important and pressing global public policy issues. I fear
> this is what is happening. A good reason of course is structural
> about what 1Net is.
>
> parminder
>
> May be that Global Multistakeholder entity will be the IETF or
> I... to help
> strengthen security, privacy and trust on the Internet.
> The Internet Governance is mainly a technical thing, let's
> leave the
> technical community takes care of it with the full
> participation and inputs
> of others stakeholders.
> Regards,
> Victor.
>
>
>
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : discuss-bounces at 1net.org
> <mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org>
> [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org
> <mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org>] De la part
> de Adiel Akplogan
> Envoyé : Sunday, March 16, 2014 8:48 AM
> À : Seun Ojedeji
> Cc : 1 Net List; Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus - IGC
> Objet : Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
>
> I disagree as well. In this discussion it is very important to
> dissociate
> the USG/NTIA by role in the performance of IANA function by
> ICANN and the
> issue related to mass surveillance. The two are not
> technically linked and
> should be addressed separately.
>
> - a.
>
> On Mar 16, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Seun Ojedeji
> <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com <mailto:seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Well I would not disagree that mass surveillance indeed
> continues.
>
> Any NSA statement that says otherwise?
>
> Cheers!
> sent from Google nexus 4
> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>
> On 15 Mar 2014 19:08, "Joly MacFie" <joly at punkcast.com
> <mailto:joly at punkcast.com>> wrote:
> Disagree,
>
> Different department.
>
> j
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Louis Pouzin (well)
> <pouzin at well.com <mailto:pouzin at well.com>>
>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The IANA ballyhoo comes from the same factory as the
> "internet freedom"
>
> smoke screen launched before WCIT. It's a spin diversion for
> the show.
>
> Mass surveillance continues. What's new ?
>
> Louis
>
>
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> --
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
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