[discuss] discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 198
Fmakane
fmakane at gmail.com
Thu Mar 20 21:12:44 UTC 2014
I would like to know if there will be a ministerial session at Netmundial. Also where can we find the draft Programme?
Best regards,
--------
Makane Faye (Mr.)
Chief of Section
Knowledge Management and Library Services (KLSS)
Public Information and Knowledge Management Division (PIKMD)
New Building, 9th floor, Office N30
United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (ECA)
P.O. Box 3001 Addis Ababa, Ethiopia
Tel: +251 11 5443563; Ext. 33563
Fax: +251 11 5514416 / +251 11 54411458
Email: mfaye at uneca.org; faymakane at gmail.com
facebook.com/makane.faye.eca
twitter: @makaneeca
Skype: makaneaddis
> On Mar 20, 2014, at 23:42, discuss-request at 1net.org wrote:
>
> Send discuss mailing list submissions to
> discuss at 1net.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> discuss-request at 1net.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> discuss-owner at 1net.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of discuss digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (S Moonesamy)
> 2. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (John Springer)
> 3. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (John Springer)
> 4. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (McTim)
> 5. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (Jefsey)
> 6. Re: [governance] NTIA statement (Norbert Bollow)
> 7. AfICTA Statement on the NTIA Announcement (jolufuye at aficta.org)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 06:30:45 -0700
> From: S Moonesamy <sm+1net at elandsys.com>
> To: McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com>, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> Cc: discuss at 1net.org
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20140320060949.0d5418f0 at resistor.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Hi McTim,
> At 03:58 20-03-2014, McTim wrote:
>> I don't know what you are looking for here.
>
> Mr Bollow was asking for the source of information to verify
> it. There was a message originating from Syracuse University in
> which the information is attributed to ICANN Staff (msg-id:
> 855077AC3D7A7147A7570370CA01ECD257E43E at SUEX10-mbx-10.ad.syr.edu).
>
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 08:32:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com>
> To: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> Cc: 1Net List <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1403200822530.4915 at mail.inlandnet.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> Wherever else the statements in question are recorded, at this location:
>
> http://www.internetcommerce.org/Secret_ICANN , the author says that:
>
> "ICANN CEO Fadi Chehade told members of its GNSO Council in Buenos Aires
> this morning" [11/17/2013] ... "Chehade stressed in his remarks that the
> Brazil meeting was meant to supplement the Internet Governance Forum but
> would not produce decisions and would eschew topics (including,
> emphatically, surveillance issues raised by the Snowden NSA revelations),
> and be limited to discussing frameworks and principles."
>
> I don't immediately find relevant transcripts, perhaps someone with better
> google fu...
>
> John Springer
>
> On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>
>>> Norbert,
>>>
>>> I don't know what you are looking for here.
>>>
>>> Would you like to deny that he said that?
>>>
>>> Would you like to deny that a link to a video in which he said that
>>> was posted?
>>
>> Hi McTim
>>
>> If Fadi indeed said what you claim he said then I want to be able to
>> understand the context, quote his statement, and give the source.
>>
>> If on the other hand the assertion about Fadi having said this in a
>> well-publicized video cannot be substantiated, I'd request that that
>> assertion be withdrawn.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Norbert
>>
>>
>>> If it wasn't on governance, perhaps it was on BB or 1net.
>>>
>>> I know he said it, I don't know if he meant it, I know that a link to
>>> the video was posted and discussed.
>>>
>>> rgds,
>>>
>>> McTim
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>> Hi McTim
>>>>
>>>> I've now looked in the archives of governance list... in your
>>>> postings from that time period, there is precisely one link to a
>>>> video of Fadi, this one:
>>>>
>>>> http://blog.planalto.gov.br/brasil-vai-sediar-encontro-mundial-sobre-governanca-da-internet-em-2014/
>>>>
>>>> That video does not contain any basis for your claim about Fadi
>>>> having said something along the lines of "if surveillance were
>>>> discussed, ICANN would pull out."
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> Norbert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:54:43 -0400
>>>> schrieb McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> We discussed this months ago on the governance list, it is in one
>>>>> of the first video interviews
>>>>> he made post NetMundial announcement. I pointed at it then, you'll
>>>>> have to look in the archives.
>>>>>
>>>>> rgds,
>>>>>
>>>>> McTim
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:16 AM, parminder
>>>>>>> <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not
>>>>>>>> constitute any real response to mass surveillance problem. And
>>>>>>>> since NetMundial came out of a series of events directly
>>>>>>>> connected to the mass surveillance problem, and which is the
>>>>>>>> main reason the 'global community' invested into it, it is
>>>>>>>> only fair to the people across the world that we have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. discussions on this issues
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You must recall Fadi saying in the very early days that if
>>>>>>> surveillance were discussed, ICANN would pull out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When and where precisely did Fadi say this? Is there a recording
>>>>>> and/or transcript available?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>> Norbert
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at 1net.org
>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com>
> To: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> Cc: 1Net List <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1403200903070.4915 at mail.inlandnet.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> Found the transcript:
>
> Very long URL shortened, http://goo.gl/0HsmQr
>
> and for those that don't like obfuscated URLs, google
> gnso buenos aires transcript fadi 17 surveillance
> top result
>
> excerpt from page 8, fadi Chehade speaking :
>
> "Last thing I want to tell you is that we have assurances at the highest
> level now that the Brazil meeting will not include topics. It will not
> include topics. For all of us running around saying it's a summit about
> surveillance, it's neither a summit, it's neither about surveillance.
> Okay, let's be very comfortable with that."
>
> see also page 19
>
> John Springer
>
>
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, John Springer wrote:
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> Wherever else the statements in question are recorded, at this location:
>>
>> http://www.internetcommerce.org/Secret_ICANN , the author says that:
>>
>> "ICANN CEO Fadi Chehade told members of its GNSO Council in Buenos Aires this
>> morning" [11/17/2013] ... "Chehade stressed in his remarks that the Brazil
>> meeting was meant to supplement the Internet Governance Forum but would not
>> produce decisions and would eschew topics (including, emphatically,
>> surveillance issues raised by the Snowden NSA revelations), and be limited to
>> discussing frameworks and principles."
>>
>> I don't immediately find relevant transcripts, perhaps someone with better
>> google fu...
>>
>> John Springer
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>
>>>> Norbert,
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what you are looking for here.
>>>>
>>>> Would you like to deny that he said that?
>>>>
>>>> Would you like to deny that a link to a video in which he said that
>>>> was posted?
>>>
>>> Hi McTim
>>>
>>> If Fadi indeed said what you claim he said then I want to be able to
>>> understand the context, quote his statement, and give the source.
>>>
>>> If on the other hand the assertion about Fadi having said this in a
>>> well-publicized video cannot be substantiated, I'd request that that
>>> assertion be withdrawn.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it wasn't on governance, perhaps it was on BB or 1net.
>>>>
>>>> I know he said it, I don't know if he meant it, I know that a link to
>>>> the video was posted and discussed.
>>>>
>>>> rgds,
>>>>
>>>> McTim
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>>> Hi McTim
>>>>>
>>>>> I've now looked in the archives of governance list... in your
>>>>> postings from that time period, there is precisely one link to a
>>>>> video of Fadi, this one:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://blog.planalto.gov.br/brasil-vai-sediar-encontro-mundial-sobre-governanca-da-internet-em-2014/
>>>>>
>>>>> That video does not contain any basis for your claim about Fadi
>>>>> having said something along the lines of "if surveillance were
>>>>> discussed, ICANN would pull out."
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> Norbert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:54:43 -0400
>>>>> schrieb McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We discussed this months ago on the governance list, it is in one
>>>>>> of the first video interviews
>>>>>> he made post NetMundial announcement. I pointed at it then, you'll
>>>>>> have to look in the archives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rgds,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> McTim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:16 AM, parminder
>>>>>>>> <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not
>>>>>>>>> constitute any real response to mass surveillance problem. And
>>>>>>>>> since NetMundial came out of a series of events directly
>>>>>>>>> connected to the mass surveillance problem, and which is the
>>>>>>>>> main reason the 'global community' invested into it, it is
>>>>>>>>> only fair to the people across the world that we have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. discussions on this issues
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You must recall Fadi saying in the very early days that if
>>>>>>>> surveillance were discussed, ICANN would pull out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When and where precisely did Fadi say this? Is there a recording
>>>>>>> and/or transcript available?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at 1net.org
>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 12:40:08 -0400
> From: McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com>
> To: John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com>
> Cc: 1Net List <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID:
> <CACAaNxiqbiXXJdJNmAH-rZPOZXW0129=H7+T3sURgSh0_Lgw_g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks for that John, good to know I wasn't imagining it!
>
> rgds,
>
> McTim
>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:32 AM, John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com> wrote:
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> Wherever else the statements in question are recorded, at this location:
>>
>> http://www.internetcommerce.org/Secret_ICANN , the author says that:
>>
>> "ICANN CEO Fadi Chehade told members of its GNSO Council in Buenos Aires
>> this morning" [11/17/2013] ... "Chehade stressed in his remarks that the
>> Brazil meeting was meant to supplement the Internet Governance Forum but
>> would not produce decisions and would eschew topics (including,
>> emphatically, surveillance issues raised by the Snowden NSA revelations),
>> and be limited to discussing frameworks and principles."
>>
>> I don't immediately find relevant transcripts, perhaps someone with better
>> google fu...
>>
>> John Springer
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 20 Mar 2014, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>
>>>> Norbert,
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what you are looking for here.
>>>>
>>>> Would you like to deny that he said that?
>>>>
>>>> Would you like to deny that a link to a video in which he said that
>>>> was posted?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi McTim
>>>
>>> If Fadi indeed said what you claim he said then I want to be able to
>>> understand the context, quote his statement, and give the source.
>>>
>>> If on the other hand the assertion about Fadi having said this in a
>>> well-publicized video cannot be substantiated, I'd request that that
>>> assertion be withdrawn.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it wasn't on governance, perhaps it was on BB or 1net.
>>>>
>>>> I know he said it, I don't know if he meant it, I know that a link to
>>>> the video was posted and discussed.
>>>>
>>>> rgds,
>>>>
>>>> McTim
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi McTim
>>>>>
>>>>> I've now looked in the archives of governance list... in your
>>>>> postings from that time period, there is precisely one link to a
>>>>> video of Fadi, this one:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://blog.planalto.gov.br/brasil-vai-sediar-encontro-mundial-sobre-governanca-da-internet-em-2014/
>>>>>
>>>>> That video does not contain any basis for your claim about Fadi
>>>>> having said something along the lines of "if surveillance were
>>>>> discussed, ICANN would pull out."
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> Norbert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Wed, 19 Mar 2014 19:54:43 -0400
>>>>> schrieb McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We discussed this months ago on the governance list, it is in one
>>>>>> of the first video interviews
>>>>>> he made post NetMundial announcement. I pointed at it then, you'll
>>>>>> have to look in the archives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rgds,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> McTim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> McTim <mctimconsulting at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:16 AM, parminder
>>>>>>>> <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not
>>>>>>>>> constitute any real response to mass surveillance problem. And
>>>>>>>>> since NetMundial came out of a series of events directly
>>>>>>>>> connected to the mass surveillance problem, and which is the
>>>>>>>>> main reason the 'global community' invested into it, it is
>>>>>>>>> only fair to the people across the world that we have
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. discussions on this issues
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You must recall Fadi saying in the very early days that if
>>>>>>>> surveillance were discussed, ICANN would pull out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When and where precisely did Fadi say this? Is there a recording
>>>>>>> and/or transcript available?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>> Norbert
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 18:12:22 +0100
> From: Jefsey <jefsey at jefsey.com>
> To: John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com>,Norbert Bollow
> <nb at bollow.ch>
> Cc: 1Net List <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID: <mailman.1023.1395348151.11625.discuss at 1net.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 17:10 20/03/2014, John Springer wrote:
>> excerpt from page 8, fadi Chehade speaking :
>>
>> "Last thing I want to tell you is that we have assurances at the
>> highest level now that the Brazil meeting will not include topics.
>> It will not include topics. For all of us running around saying it's
>> a summit about surveillance, it's neither a summit, it's neither
>> about surveillance. Okay, let's be very comfortable with that."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topic%E2%80%93comment
>
> We can feel confortable, the Brazil meeting will be about a nice cup
> of tea, or a mug of cofee. It will only include comments on not a
> single topic.
>
> At last we know why some people on this list are going to spend in
> T&L to&in Sao Paulo (just after Singapore) much more money than
> needed by a FLOSS group to upgrade the Internet: this is NOT for
> something on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_%28disambiguation%29 list.
>
> In terms of surveillance; nominees for the Sao Paulo award are:
>
> - ICANN for WhoIs
> - NSA for PRISM
> - ??? for Snowdenia
> - IANA for "The Unique Authoritative Root" (Special April 1st Prize &
> 30th Anniversary)
>
> jfc
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:31:13 +0100
> From: Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch>
> To: John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com>
> Cc: 1Net List <discuss at 1net.org>
> Subject: Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
> Message-ID: <20140320193113.062643a6 at quill>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> John Springer <springer at inlandnet.com> wrote:
>
>> Found the transcript:
>>
>> Very long URL shortened, http://goo.gl/0HsmQr
>>
>> and for those that don't like obfuscated URLs, google
>> gnso buenos aires transcript fadi 17 surveillance
>> top result
>
> Thank you so much John for pointing me to the right document!!!
>
>> see also page 19
>
> which has the following text that very closely matches McTim's claim:
>
> "And as I told you before, they were in Bali talking about putting
> surveillance on the agenda, right? And we engaged them and we said, no,
> you want to put surveillance as the agenda? Count us out, we're done.
> We're not coming. And it was fine because we were frankly being very
> direct with them. So it's not - no topics will be discussed in Brazil,
> period. No topics. The only things that will be on the agenda is what
> we said from the beginning: We can talk about high level principles and
> we can talk about institutional frameworks, no topics. We can talk
> about how we do Internet governance, not what do we do about a certain
> topic." (Fadi Chehad?, 17 November 2013.)
>
> Now knowing what specific session to look for, it wasn't too hard to
> also find the audio recording; it can be downloaded from
> http://buenosaires48.icann.org/en/schedule/sun-gnso-working/audio-gnso-working-3-17nov13-en .
>
> I have verified on the basis of the audio recording that the
> above-quoted transcript section is accurate.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 13:42:26 -0700
> From: <jolufuye at aficta.org>
> To: Discuss at 1net.org, africann at afrinic.net
> Subject: [discuss] AfICTA Statement on the NTIA Announcement
> Message-ID:
> <20140320134226.afe55ebc6ef4c5f2145e08229a07a40e.cd5e822da0.wbe at email14.secureserver.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140320/19df8eeb/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss at 1net.org
> http://1net-mail1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> End of discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 198
> ***************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140321/f2b22bfc/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the discuss
mailing list