[discuss] Artificial conflation of issues not helpful. [Was: Digest, Vol 3, Issue 67]

Thu Feb 20 14:41:15 UTC 2014

Dominique

I’ll try to respond to this.  It does involve personal views.  See comments in-line.

On Feb 20, 2014, at 9:10 AM, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu> wrote:

> Dear George and Gregory,
> 
> You're right. One cannot prove an absence. It recalls the beginning of Irak invasion... where the USA asked for evidences that there were not any weapon of mass destruction.

A particularly good example from which we are still all suffering.

> But here, I only invite you to prove that Patriot Act and NSA abusing surveillance don't exist, as I invoked them both as evidences.

This is a matter of opinion.  I believe that the Patriot Act contains some dangerous language that I wish was not there.

I believe that the NSA surveillance has gotten out of hand, and I hope that it can be controlled.

Others may believe otherwise.

> And Michel Gauthier precisely listed some links between the root management and US surveillance.

He provided some facts that did not seem to be relevant.  He listed some questions.  I believe that he provided no evidence of any such linkage.  Now, it’s clear that there has been psychological and political damage to trust, in various ways, that link the two in peoples’ minds, but that says nothing about whether there is actual linkage.
> 
> CODE is a sort of weapon of mass destruction if one country centralizes its production rules.
> 
> Now, I can understand that with good faith you could consider things in another way.
> This problem as also several layers.
> If you prefer, you could consider that the whole economic-socio-technical US system is wandering, without really checking the agreements of the others, in a worldwide shape & control logic. The most part of US actors of this system cannot see it because their are inside the box, just doing - very well - one's job, a very little part of the whole. It works like hypnosis, like possession by a sorcerer power. It's a power of technique well known by some philosophers.

Yes, I can understand your distinction between being in the box and therefore being acclimatized to the culture and not realizing that people outside the box have a different view.  I travel to other countries often, and one of the real benefits of that travel is to understand how people on other countries view the US.  I suspect that’s true for every sensitive traveller in a foreign environment. 

George

> 
> @+, best, Dominique
> 
> 
> 
> Le 19/02/14 21:44, George Sadowsky a écrit :
>> Dominique,
>> 
>> You’re asking me to prove a negative.  I can’t do that, can you ?
>> 
>> The Patriot Act is a piece of domestic legislation that contains points that I both agree with and disagree with.  It does not involve the IANA function or the root zone files.  It does legislate tighter controls (surveillance) over certain activities.
>> 
>> The NSA revelations are cause for concern as a surveillance issue.  But I don’t see that you imply that they are connected with the IANA functions or the root zone files.
>> 
>> Perhaps you could be more specific regarding the evidence for linkages between the two.
>> 
>> George
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 19, 2014, at 3:23 PM, Dominique Lacroix <dl at panamo.eu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 19/02/14 20:55, George Sadowsky a écrit :
>>>> In particular, I would assert that the real link between the NSA revelations and technical management of the root is the perception that both involve the same country, the USA.  I would claim that there is no technical linkage between the two.  Those that believe there is such a linkage have the obligation to describe in detail, with evidence, exactly what they believe that linkage is.
>>>> 
>>>> There is also a perception that ICANN and therefore the IANA function being located in the USA have given the NSA an advantage in being able to carry out their various surveillance activities.  I asset that this is not true. Those that believe there is such a linkage have the obligation to describe in detail, with evidence, exactly what they believe that linkage is.
>>> Dear George and Shatan,
>>> I usually don't share all Jefsey's visions (cause either I cannot understand them or I have no time enough to read their abstracts). But on this point I fear YOU have to give the world some evidence. Otherwise you could appear as trying to reverse the burden of proof.
>>> 
>>> The Patriot Act + NSA revelations ARE evidences for the whole world.
>>> That is the very sad and tricky situation we have to face.
>>> 
>>> @+, best, Dominique
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> 
> 

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