[discuss] [governance] NTIA statement

Mon Mar 17 09:22:13 UTC 2014

Dear Seun, inline responses

On 17 Mar 2014, at 10:11, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Nick,
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Nick Ashton-Hart <nashton at ccianet.org> wrote:
> I disagree.
> 
> The international community does need a way to discuss surveillance - but Internet governance is not that venue, for the simple reason that the surveillance issue is about surveillance and not the Internet. 
> 
> The issue of mass surveillance is really asking the question of how do countries treat non-nationals in their national security activities. The fact that the Internet is used as a tool for surveillance is really irrelevant to the question, just as the Internet is used for distribution of illegal material like those related to child exploitation but that is primarily an enforcement of laws issue, not an Internet issue.
>  
> IG does not need to be about everything where there is an Internet dimension - or no solution to any problem can be found.
> 
> However: the political demands for action over surveillance are impacting the Internet as we all know - so we do have a vested interest in ensuring that the core issue of mass surveillance is addressed, just not primarily by us, and not in IG.
> 
> Just to get the flow right, when you say "us" whom do you refer? and when you say mass surveillance is not an IG issue then what issue is it? My expectation is that the IG platform will provide an avenue to discuss the issue and then propose solutions which countries will then turn to legal content applicable to them. If the issues are not discussed then it will be difficult to know what they are and address them. Bringing then to IG fora will help give it a voice that could hopefully get to the listening hears of government and relevant authorities. 

"Us" meaning the IG community. As to what issue it is, it is, as I described, an issue of surveillance, not the Internet. So, the human rights dimensions are currently being actively addressed in the Human Rights Council and related processes. The exchange of data for criminal and national security purposes are governed by MLATs (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties) - Access.org has an excellent website devoted to MLAT reform at www.mlat.info.

Bringing this issue to IG fora will harmfully conflate issues which have nothing to do with IG with IG issues, and contaminate (further) Internet governance with a great deal of politicisation. I would hope that we all don't want to see the security, stability, and universality of the Internet further polluted with politics of national security and safety.

> As per the NetMundial, i agree with Avri that from recent happenings, ICANN-IANA related issues may carry the majority of the agenda which ofcourse was not the only reason why the event was conjured in the first place. However since the ICANN-IANA discussion will start from ICANN49 i think some foundational progress will have been made to further lighten up the NetMundial agenda to accommodate the other half of the goal which is largely related to mass surveillance.

I think if NetMundial is consumed with ICANN issues that will be both a mistake and a huge missed opportunities. Finding a way to agree on principles, and what is, and is not, appropriate for IG policy to address would be a significant added value; there is also no other global forum designed to produce outcomes along these lines. The discussion of internationalizing ICANN has a home for discussions: ICANN.

> I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with recent development on ICANN-IANA, as it is good news. However we should also not let that overwhelm the other present concerns. Lets remember that the ICANN-IANA processes is to prevent the future "what-IFs" while mass surveillance on the other hand is currently happening and we should not neglect that.

"we" cannot solve national security issues. All we can do is insist that the various aspects of national security use of data and the rules by which non-nationals are treated are dealt with - in the fora where they are already under discussion.

> 
> Regards
>  
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> On 17 Mar 2014, at 06:16, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Sunday 16 March 2014 09:51 PM, Victor Ndonnang wrote:
>>> +1 Adiel.
>>> Surveillance and intelligence agencies was there before the Internet. Even
>>> if the Internet has a role in the mass surveillance...USG/NTIA intent to
>>> transfer IANA and root zone management related to the global independent
>>> Multistakeholder entity is not a response to the mass surveillance issue.
>> 
>> Agree, developments on the ICANN oversight issue do not constitute any real response to mass surveillance problem. And since NetMundial came out of a series of events directly connected to the mass surveillance problem, and which is the main reason the 'global community' invested into it, it is only fair to the people across the world that we have
>> 
>> 1. discussions on this issues, and others related to larger international public policy issues pertaining to the Internet , and
>> 2. come up with proposals regarding these issues.
>> 
>> I have seen almost nil work on this list in this regard. ICANN oversight issue should not be allowed to overshadow  these much more important and pressing global public policy issues. I fear this is what is happening. A good reason of course is structural about what 1Net is.
>> 
>> parminder
>> 
>>> May be that Global Multistakeholder entity will be the IETF or I... to help
>>> strengthen security, privacy and trust on the Internet.
>>> The Internet Governance is mainly a technical thing, let's leave the
>>> technical community takes care of it with the full participation and inputs
>>> of others stakeholders.
>>> Regards,
>>> Victor.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>> De : discuss-bounces at 1net.org [mailto:discuss-bounces at 1net.org] De la part
>>> de Adiel Akplogan
>>> Envoyé : Sunday, March 16, 2014 8:48 AM
>>> À : Seun Ojedeji
>>> Cc : 1 Net List; Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus - IGC
>>> Objet : Re: [discuss] [governance] NTIA statement
>>> 
>>> I disagree as well. In this discussion it is very important to dissociate
>>> the USG/NTIA by role in the performance of IANA function by ICANN and the
>>> issue related to mass surveillance. The two are not technically linked and
>>> should be addressed separately.
>>> 
>>> - a.
>>> 
>>> On Mar 16, 2014, at 11:03 AM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Well I would not disagree that mass surveillance indeed continues.
>>>> 
>>>> Any NSA statement that says otherwise?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> sent from Google nexus 4
>>>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>>>> 
>>>> On 15 Mar 2014 19:08, "Joly MacFie" <joly at punkcast.com> wrote:
>>>> Disagree,
>>>> 
>>>> Different department.
>>>> 
>>>> j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Louis Pouzin (well) <pouzin at well.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> The IANA ballyhoo comes from the same factory as the "internet freedom"
>>> smoke screen launched before WCIT. It's a spin diversion for the show.
>>>> Mass surveillance continues. What's new ?
>>>> 
>>>> Louis
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>>>      governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>>> To be removed from the list, visit:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>>>> 
>>>> For all other list information and functions, see:
>>>>      http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
>>>> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>>>>      http://www.igcaucus.org/
>>>> 
>>>> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Joly MacFie  218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC -
>>>> http://wwwhatsup.com  http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP
>>>> (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss at 1net.org
>>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss at 1net.org
>> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss at 1net.org
> http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Seun Ojedeji,
> Federal University Oye-Ekiti
> web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
> Mobile: +2348035233535
> alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140317/59003e63/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 495 bytes
Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
URL: <http://1net-mail.1net.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20140317/59003e63/signature-0001.asc>